Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    27 Apr '17 14:35
    I don't agree with everything I've ever written on this forum.

    Here's a thread for anyone who wants to share any opinions or beliefs they have changed as a result of discussions on this forum (or for any other reason). What have you learned? How have your beliefs changed?

    For myself, I've come around on gay marriage (thanks Nemesio) and learned quite a bit here about the ideas that went into forming the US Constitution (thanks no1 and many others). I'm sure I could think of more. Anyone else want to share?
  2. 27 Apr '17 15:35
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    I don't agree with everything I've ever written on this forum.

    Here's a thread for anyone who wants to share any opinions or beliefs they have changed as a result of discussions on this forum (or for any other reason). What have you learned? How have your beliefs changed?

    For myself, I've come around on gay marriage (thanks Nemesio) and learned quite ...[text shortened]... itution (thanks no1 and many others). I'm sure I could think of more. Anyone else want to share?
    I've become completely apathetic towards Israel.
  3. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    27 Apr '17 16:01
    Thinking about this some more, I guess the most important thing I've realized from years of reading this forum and following politics etc, is that no single ideology or "ism" adequately addresses every moral question.
  4. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    27 Apr '17 16:36 / 3 edits
    Exactly. This is the problem in the USA today. Both the right and the left, try to push their views on everyone else without even being willing to look at the others side of it. It's all either our (my) way or no way. As a left leaning Christian moderate who sits in the middle, I just sit back and shake my head at both sides much of the time. Each side is right in some areas to me; and, each side is wrong in many areas to me. The real problem is lack of love for others beside those that agree with our view. I think, You hit the nail on the head Sleepyguy. I know I have changed much since joining RHP 12 years ago.
  5. 27 Apr '17 16:50
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    Exactly. This is the problem in the USA today. Both the right and the left, try to push their views on everyone else without even being willing to look at the others side of it. It's all either our (my) way or no way. As a left leaning Christian moderate who sits in the middle, I just sit back and shake my head at both sides much of the time. Each ...[text shortened]... hit the nail on the head Sleepyguy. I know I have changed much since joining RHP 12 years ago.
    The main problem in (political debate in) the USA (but not only the USA) is that people regard each issue as having two possible "sides:" a "left" and a "right" side, as opposed to judging a position on its intrinsic merits.
  6. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    27 Apr '17 16:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The main problem in (political debate in) the USA (but not only the USA) is that people regard each issue as having two possible "sides:" a "left" and a "right" side, as opposed to judging a position on its intrinsic merits.
    as opposed to judging a position on its intrinsic merits. Give a couple examples please. I know many people are not much into seeking the Truth in most matters.
  7. 27 Apr '17 17:06
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    As a left leaning Christian moderate who sits in the middle,
    A surprising number of people on this forum, deny being a member of either 'side' yet consistently seem to support one of those sides. I too end up being seen as 'left' event though I disagree on many issues with other people labelled 'left' and I agree with KazetNagorra that issues shouldn't really be categorised at all but judged on their own merits.
    The biggest problem on this forum though is not that we are not willing to listen to each others views, but a surprising number of people are not willing to share their views. Instead they promote what they know to be falsehoods to drive an agenda that they apparently cannot articulate directly.
  8. 27 Apr '17 17:08
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    [b] as opposed to judging a position on its intrinsic merits. Give a couple examples please. I know many people are not much into seeking the Truth in most matters.[/b]
    Every time someone invokes the left-right-dichotomy or some variation thereof in order to defend or attack a policy would be an example.
  9. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    27 Apr '17 17:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    A surprising number of people on this forum, deny being a member of either 'side' yet consistently seem to support one of those sides. I too end up being seen as 'left' event though I disagree on many issues with other people labelled 'left' and I agree with KazetNagorra that issues shouldn't really be categorised at all but judged on their own merits.
    T ...[text shortened]... t they know to be falsehoods to drive an agenda that they apparently cannot articulate directly.
    lol, I agree. As a Christian, you would not believe how many times I have been told that I am not a Christian since I side with one view or another. This is a big reason why I went back to school to completely learn all of God's Holy Word the Bible. I will have my degree in around six months. My opinions really have not changed much and still are left leaning and can all be backed up by the Bible. However, when I show the scriptures and teaching from the Bible, many far-right Christians plug their ears and go "na na na na na na) lol, It is somewhat hilarious to me. However, they are some who do see what I'm talking about.
  10. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    27 Apr '17 17:16 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Every time someone invokes the left-right-dichotomy or some variation thereof in order to defend or attack a policy would be an example.
    Yes, all black or all white. Exactly. That's great for brain washing people and especially the young; especially when one uses God's name for their views . Notice how much hatred that brings in from both sides of a view. How much separation between us it causes.
  11. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    27 Apr '17 17:27
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The main problem in (political debate in) the USA (but not only the USA) is that people regard each issue as having two possible "sides:" a "left" and a "right" side, as opposed to judging a position on its intrinsic merits.
    I would add two other factors:

    1. So many of the topics we discuss are so well trodden (abortion, Israel/Palestine, Socialism/Capitalism etc) that no one feels a need to listen to the other side because we reached our conclusion long ago.

    2. We are so polarized that we don't give the other side of benefit of believing that even though we may not agree on details, their intentions are good.

    For example, I believe capitalists and socialists both believe their ideology is the best possible way to achieve the most prosperity for the most people. In other words they share the same laudable goal. And yet both groups are damn near having a civil war in the streets over the details.
  12. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    27 Apr '17 17:38 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    I would add two other factors:

    1. So many of the topics we discuss are so well trodden (abortion, Israel/Palestine, Socialism/Capitalism etc) that no one feels a need to listen to the other side because we reached our conclusion long ago.

    2. We are so polarized that we don't give the other side of benefit of believing that even though we may not agre ...[text shortened]... able goal. And yet both groups are damn near having a civil war in the streets over the details.
    Interesting and true.
    I believe capitalists and socialists both believe their ideology is the best possible way to achieve the most prosperity for the most people. From an American Christians view, most Christians in America believe that socialists in any form are from the devil. However, worldwide, there are many more socialist Christians that capitalist Christians. Furthermore, The original Christian churches all lived in a completely socialistic environment with each other. Food for thought.
  13. 27 Apr '17 17:47
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    I would add two other factors:

    1. So many of the topics we discuss are so well trodden (abortion, Israel/Palestine, Socialism/Capitalism etc) that no one feels a need to listen to the other side because we reached our conclusion long ago.

    2. We are so polarized that we don't give the other side of benefit of believing that even though we may not agre ...[text shortened]... able goal. And yet both groups are damn near having a civil war in the streets over the details.
    I stopped reading trump threads months ago. I already made my conclusion, and if people can't come to their own conclusion by now then they are truly not worth trying to convince.
  14. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    27 Apr '17 17:51 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    I stopped reading trump threads months ago. I already made my conclusion, and if people can't come to their own conclusion by now then they are truly not worth trying to convince.
    lol, that would be great if there was not so many innocent victims by Trump and Republican policies. The wealthy claiming to be financial victims because of the poor and working classes seems ironic to me.
  15. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    27 Apr '17 18:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Ashiitaka
    I stopped reading trump threads months ago. I already made my conclusion, and if people can't come to their own conclusion by now then they are truly not worth trying to convince.
    Well for the reasons mentioned this is not a good forum for trying to convince anyone of anything, but it serves pretty well as a mechanism for exposing yourself to many opinions on political topics, and thereby clarifying and possibly modifying your own beliefs.