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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber huckleberryhound
    Devout Agnostic.
    13 Aug '17 22:35
    Is calling the Far right "alt right" in the media going to get someone else killed?

    Creating a dichotomy like this is going to get someone else killed next time there's a riot in Berkeley. Republcans and Neo nazis are all "Alt right", and Liberals and Extreme leftists are all "Antifa" or "Communists".

    Buzz words are going to kill more people. (i might be wrong, of course)
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    13 Aug '17 22:44
    What's wrong with being Anti Fascist?
  3. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    13 Aug '17 23:43
    Originally posted by @huckleberryhound
    Is calling the Far right "alt right" in the media going to get someone else killed?

    Creating a dichotomy like this is going to get someone else killed next time there's a riot in Berkeley. Republcans and Neo nazis are all "Alt right", and Liberals and Extreme leftists are all "Antifa" or "Communists".

    Buzz words are going to kill more people. (i might be wrong, of course)
    Is calling the Far right "alt right" in the media going to get someone else killed?


    I'm not sure if labels like this will get anyone killed, but you can expect more deaths regardless, there seems to be a great deal of anger in the world these days. I'm not going to pretend I have the answers, because I don't.

    It's time to learn another song on my flute.
  4. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    13 Aug '17 23:55
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Is calling the Far right "alt right" in the media going to get someone else killed?


    I'm not sure if labels like this will get anyone killed, but you can expect more deaths regardless, there seems to be a great deal of anger in the world these days. I'm not going to pretend I have the answers, because I don't.

    It's time to learn another song on my flute.
    Reverend John Pavlovitz has been preaching the gospel for two decades, but unlike his Trump-supporting counterparts, he actually practices what he preaches.

    In the below piece, posted to his website today, Pavlovitz shows the courage to say what many will not about the terrifying scene that unfolded today. Every white American needs to take urgent action to confront the scourge of racist hate.

    Pavlovitz’s powerful words are below and should be read by every white American.

    Yes, This is Racism

    As a writer and pastor, my job is to weave together words so that those words will hopefully reach people in their deepest places; to frame the experience of this life in a way that is somehow compelling or creative or interesting, causing them to engage with the world differently than before.

    But there are times when to do this would be actually be a disservice to reality, when any clever wordplay would only soften the jagged, sickening truth; when clever turns of phrase might succeed in obscuring the horrid ugliness in front of us.

    Sometimes we just need to say it without adornment or finessing.

    What we’re watching unfold in Charlottesville, with hundreds of white people bearing torches and chanting about the value of white lives and shouting slurs, is not a “far Right” protest. When you move that far right, past humanity, past decency, past goodness—you’re something else.

    You’re not a supremacist, you’re not a nationalist, and you’re not alt-Right.

    This is racism.
    This is domestic terrorism.
    This is religious extremism.
    This is bigotry.
    It is blind hatred of the most vile kind.
    It doesn’t represent America.
    It doesn’t represent Jesus.
    It doesn’t speak for the majority of white Americans.
    It’s a cancerous, terrible, putrid sickness that represents the absolute worst of who we are.

    No, naming it won’t change it, but naming it is necessary nonetheless. It’s necessary for us to say it—especially when the media won’t, when our elected leaders won’t, when our President won’t. It’s necessary to condemn it so that we do not become complicit in it.

    This is our national History being forged in real-time, and to use words lacking clarity now would be to risk allowing the ugliness off the hook or to create ambiguity that excuses it. And yes, there are all sorts of other ways that racism and privilege live and thrive; ways that are far less obvious or brazen than tiki-torch wielding marches. There are systemic illnesses and structural defects and national blind spots that we need to speak to and keeping pushing back against, and we will. But in moments that are this clear, when the malignancy is so fully on display—we’d better have the guts to say it.

    White people especially need to name racism in this hour, because somewhere in that crowd of sweaty, dead-eyed, raw throated white men—are our brothers and cousins and husbands and fathers and children; those we go to church with and see at Little League and in our neighborhoods. They need to be made accountable by those they deem their “own kind.” They need to know that this is not who we are, that we don’t bless or support or respect this. They need white faces speaking directly into their white faces, loudly on behalf of love.

    Though all of us can eventually trace our lineage back to oneness, all carrying a varied blood in our veins—the surface level differences matter to these torch-bearers. They value white lives and white voices above anything else, and so we whose pigmentation matches theirs need to speak with unflinching clarity about this or we simply amen it.

    So I’m saying it.

    We are not with you, torch-bearers, in Charlottesville or anywhere.
    We do no consent to this.
    In fact we stand against you, alongside the very beautiful diversity that you fear.
    We stand with people of every color and of all faiths, people of every orientation, nationality, and native tongue.

    We are not going to have this. This is not the country we’ve built together and it will not become what you intend it to become.

    So you can kiss our diverse, unified, multi-colored behinds because your racism and your terrorism will not win the day.

    Believe it.

    http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/08/12/christian-pastor-just-called-every-white-american-epic-response-virginia-rally/
  5. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    14 Aug '17 01:52
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Reverend John Pavlovitz has been preaching the gospel for two decades, but unlike his Trump-supporting counterparts, he actually practices what he preaches.

    In the below piece, posted to his website today, Pavlovitz shows the courage to say what many will not about the terrifying scene that unfolded today. Every white American needs to take urgent actio ...[text shortened]... l.com/2017/08/12/christian-pastor-just-called-every-white-american-epic-response-virginia-rally/
    You are 100% correct, but helping the Trump folks see this is far easier said than done.
  6. 14 Aug '17 10:20 / 2 edits
    Why do I get the unnerving feeling that this thing was allowed to happen? Two days prior the Governor? called a state of emergency citing the idea that the state did not have enough police to deal with the issue and yet when I watched the footage I never saw any police presence whatsoever. Heck if your tail light is out they are all over you pointing weapons, but a mass protest and counter protest, nada, they disappear? Admittedly I was not there and have no real way of knowing exactly what transpired, but all the usual cast are there, anti fascists, white supremacists. What did they expect was gonna happen?
  7. 14 Aug '17 10:38
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Reverend John Pavlovitz has been preaching the gospel for two decades, but unlike his Trump-supporting counterparts, he actually practices what he preaches.

    In the below piece, posted to his website today, Pavlovitz shows the courage to say what many will not about the terrifying scene that unfolded today. Every white American needs to take urgent actio ...[text shortened]... l.com/2017/08/12/christian-pastor-just-called-every-white-american-epic-response-virginia-rally/
    This is far too simplified a perspective which seeks to do noting but stifle debate and vilify those who oppose the monoculture perspective. In every city I have been in people gravitate and polarise. In Glasgow there is China town which surprisingly enough has lots of ethnic Chinese. In the South side of the city, Muslims have their area. Further afield in the villages there are places which are almost entirely Catholic, others Protestant. These cultural enclaves provide people with a sense of history and identity, also of belonging. Why are the monoculturalists seeking to destroy this by design?
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    14 Aug '17 12:39
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie
    This is far too simplified a perspective which seeks to do noting but stifle debate and vilify those who oppose the monoculture perspective. In every city I have been in people gravitate and polarise. In Glasgow there is China town which surprisingly enough has lots of ethnic Chinese. In the South side of the city, Muslims have their area. Furth ...[text shortened]... nd identity, also of belonging. Why are the monoculturalists seeking to destroy this by design?
    Yes I know what you mean, since after all, Liverpool has
    a) a chinatown area
    b) ocasional fascist marches by unwelcome outsiders
    c) a track record of hostile but largely good humoured counter marches vastly outnumbering the fascists and rejecting their racism.
    [d] Everton FC with a history as a Protestant team and Liverpool FC with a history of being a Catholic team, but in a city that has put sectarian aggression and abuse into a box marked "long ago".

    You see - it is not at all difficult to recall why we reject fascism in this country, despite its ongoing low level public and establishment (especially establishment) support.

    Why you feel a need to speak up for the degenerate fascists of Charlottsville escapes me. The evidence seems to be that they are noisy and intrusive but an unwelcome minority there. That's good news.
  9. 14 Aug '17 13:17
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Yes I know what you mean, since after all, Liverpool has
    a) a chinatown area
    b) ocasional fascist marches by unwelcome outsiders
    c) a track record of hostile but largely good humoured counter marches vastly outnumbering the fascists and rejecting their racism.
    [d] Everton FC with a history as a Protestant team and Liverpool FC with a history of bein ...[text shortened]... eems to be that they are noisy and intrusive but an unwelcome minority there. That's good news.
    I am not speaking on behalf or up for degenerate fascists as you claim. What I am willing to do though is attempt to understand the situation without a bias as far as is reasonably possible. The problem is that media bias is so endemic that its all but impossible to get an accurate portrayal of what actually transpired and why. Infact its so desperately plastic that most Western media outlets simply treated it as another Trump bashing occasion. That's how unwilling they are to report the actual issues, why they transpired and what the grievances of protesters on both sides of the divide actually is.
  10. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    14 Aug '17 13:27
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie
    I am not speaking on behalf or up for degenerate fascists as you claim. What I am willing to do though is attempt to understand the situation without a bias as far as is reasonably possible. The problem is that media bias is so endemic that its all but impossible to get an accurate portrayal of what actually transpired and why. Infact its so despe ...[text shortened]... y they transpired and what the grievances of protesters on both sides of the divide actually is.
    Nonsense on stilts. The reporting was copious and from diverse sources. You are looking for ambiguity where there is none.
  11. 14 Aug '17 14:10
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie
    Why do I get the unnerving feeling that this thing was allowed to happen?
    Do you really want to know the answer to that question?
  12. 14 Aug '17 14:20
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Do you really want to know the answer to that question?
    You also think it was allowed to happen?
  13. 14 Aug '17 14:24
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie
    [b The problem is that media bias is so endemic ... That's how unwilling they are to report the actual issues, why they transpired and what the grievances of protesters on both sides of the divide actually is.[/b]
    As has been stated, this is nonsense. But humor me by telling us what the 'actual issues' are.
  14. 14 Aug '17 14:36 / 11 edits
    Originally posted by @stevemcc
    As has been stated, this is nonsense. But humor me by telling us what the 'actual issues' are.
    If you don't know then clearly there is truth to the statement and your assertion of nonsense is well to put it politely, nonsense. Are the so called white supremacists not marching because they have issues with the removal of war memorials, specifically Robert E Lee? A memorial to a war in which their ancestors fought and died? The banning of the confederate flag which for them is some kind of symbol? Some have ideological issues about what they perceive as coerced integration, the right to protest, free speech and yes some are clearly racists. How this could have evaded you I have really no idea?

    As far as I can discern all that has been portrayed is that they are racists, which may be the case but it is once again simply a rather predictable attempt to stifle debate and a typical one dimensional approach. We see it all the time in criticism of Israel, oh you are anti Semitic, end of debate, so called gay rights, oh you are homophobic, end of debate.

    The only nonsense that I can discern seems to be coming from people who simply turn everything into a moral issue without ever trying to understand or come to terms in a truly objective way what is transpiring and why. I guess its simply takes less mental exertion. Who can say?

    Oh and I am not here to humour you, Capiche? Good.

    As for media bias they all to a publication used it as political capital to criticise the President. The claim was that 'he never condemned the racists', which he did. Then it was switched to the claim that he never condemned them enough etc etc Why that should be difficult for you to grasp or even acknowledge I cannot say.
  15. 14 Aug '17 16:48
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie
    You also think it was allowed to happen?
    I think people in the U.S. are allowed to purchase cars and drive them upon obtaining a license.

    The terms and conditions of the RedHotPawn message boards don't allow me to express my opinion about people who seriously think that authorities were aware of the imminent terrorist attack and did nothing to stop it.