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  1. 06 Dec '17 11:40
    YouTube

    This is a ten minute video discussing outrage concerning a trailer for a yet to be released computer game called "Detroit Become Human", which features scenes of domestic child abuse.

    This is the trailer: YouTube

    People are calling for a ban on these kinds of scenes in games.

    Are these types of computer games acceptable?
  2. 06 Dec '17 11:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    [youtube]PvyV327NGqQ[/youtube]

    This is a ten minute video discussing outrage concerning a trailer for a yet to be released computer game called "Detroit Become Human", which features scenes of domestic child abuse.

    This is the trailer: [youtube]YtPmIBqRwQU[/youtube]

    People are calling for a ban on these kinds of scenes in games.

    Are these types of computer games acceptable?
    I’ll try to watch the discussion later but I did watch the trailer.

    My initial reaction is that while the subject matter is more sensitive, I don’t find this game based on the trailer any worse than what’s already out there in war games, horror games and gangster games.
  3. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    06 Dec '17 12:03
    It's a rather strange subject for a computer game...
    Who the hell would want to play it?

    As for the level of violence? Dunno. It's not worse than dragging a granny out of a car and shooting her, which I believe happens in some or other car-jack game.

    I presume the depiction of child abuse is more about infamy, news coverage (advertising) and selling units, rather than anything to do with whacking a kid.
  4. 06 Dec '17 12:14
    An important aspect of the discussion in the first video is the claim that many people don't understand the "computer game medium" at all. Shavixmir's response ["It's a rather strange subject for a computer game... Who the hell would want to play it?"] seems to be an example of that.

    The difference is that Shav's just a guy on the internet whereas the people discussed in the video have a level of authority and possibly influence..
  5. 06 Dec '17 12:15
    "I presume the depiction of child abuse is more about infamy, news coverage (advertising) and selling units, rather than anything to do with whacking a kid."

    Why would you presume this?
  6. 06 Dec '17 12:20
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    [youtube]PvyV327NGqQ[/youtube]

    This is a ten minute video discussing outrage concerning a trailer for a yet to be released computer game called "Detroit Become Human", which features scenes of domestic child abuse.

    This is the trailer: [youtube]YtPmIBqRwQU[/youtube]

    People are calling for a ban on these kinds of scenes in games.

    Are these types of computer games acceptable?
    Looks good to me, nice to see games tackling big issues. Not sure what the problem is.
  7. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    06 Dec '17 12:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    "I presume the depiction of child abuse is more about infamy, news coverage (advertising) and selling units, rather than anything to do with whacking a kid."

    Why would you presume this?
    Mainly because of two things:
    1. Child abusers rarely promote themselves as child abusers.
    2. Look at the flutter this has already generated. That's gonna sell units.

    There's a third. I don't think that trying to convince people to abuse children is a realistic option. Child abuse doesn't work that way.
  8. 06 Dec '17 12:40 / 2 edits
    This is a trailer for the yet to be released The Last Of Us, part II (the sequel to one of the best games ever made): YouTube

    There was a lot of outrage over this one, as well. Outrage sells, it seems. In particular Polygon was super-duper distressed by what they saw:

    https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/30/16571230/last-of-us-part-2-trailer-violence-women

    One point they made in particular stood out to me:

    "The violence is particularly upsetting as it features the assault of women."

    Is violence particularly upsetting if the victim is a woman rather than a man? What if the one committing the violence is also a woman? Does that balance things out?
  9. 06 Dec '17 12:59
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    [youtube]PvyV327NGqQ[/youtube]

    This is a ten minute video discussing outrage concerning a trailer for a yet to be released computer game called "Detroit Become Human", which features scenes of domestic child abuse.

    This is the trailer: [youtube]YtPmIBqRwQU[/youtube]

    People are calling for a ban on these kinds of scenes in games.

    Are these types of computer games acceptable?
    What they need to do is replace the children with Congressmen and Trump along with Hollywood producers.

    If they did, sales would be out the roof!

    I might even give it a go.
  10. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    06 Dec '17 13:02
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    This is a trailer for the yet to be released The Last Of Us, part II (the sequel to one of the best games ever made): [youtube]UzdNECcio54[/youtube]

    There was a lot of outrage over this one, as well. Outrage sells, it seems. In particular Polygon was super-duper distressed by what they saw:

    https://www.polygon.com/2017/10/30/16571230/last-of-us ...[text shortened]... an a man? What if the one committing the violence is also a woman? Does that balance things out?
    Context is everything.

    If the game is (tongue in cheek) action and you shoot the crap out of people, it’s going to be experienced differently than if you follow a character’s life for a long period of time. Have to stab them and stand over their shaking body as they whine for their mother as they die.

    An example: did you cry during Star Wars or during Schindler’s list?
    More people die in Star Wars.

    Context. Can’t say it enough
  11. Standard member vivify
    rain
    06 Dec '17 15:27
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Context is everything.

    If the game is (tongue in cheek) action and you shoot the crap out of people, it’s going to be experienced differently than if you follow a character’s life for a long period of time. Have to stab them and stand over their shaking body as they whine for their mother as they die.

    An example: did you cry during Star Wars or during Schindler’s list?
    More people die in Star Wars.

    Context. Can’t say it enough
    Agreed. Scenes like the one described in the OP can be handled maturely, if the writing is strong and warrants them.

    I once played a game called BioShock, where you have the option of killing little girls or letting them go. They control a giant mechanical monster, and send it to kill you. But, due to the dangerous environment, their motivations are simply to protect themselves, and are not malicious. A girl doesn't know if you're friendly or want to hurt her.

    Killing her resulted in a significant boost in powers and abilities, saving her resulted in comparatively meager rewards. However, after letting go of the girls a few times, you do get a very good reward, which you can't get if you killed her. However, you don't know the game will reward you for letting them go. There's a woman who calls you a "saint" for saving the little girl, and bestows these rewards.

    This adds an interesting moral dimension to the game. There are monsters and other frightened human beings trying to kill, and you just want to stay alive. I remember after letting the girl go the first time, I killed her to see what would happen. She's crying after you beat the monster protecting her. You pick her up, and she shrieks, quivering in your hand as she dies. That was just too heart breaking, and I started the level again, and let her go when got back up to that part in the game.

    Was this wrong? I don't know. I didn't think so at the time, since it's your choice if she dies or not. But I thought the game handled this well.
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    9th Grade...
    06 Dec '17 20:16 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    It's a rather strange subject for a computer game...
    Who the hell would want to play it?

    As for the level of violence? Dunno. It's not worse than dragging a granny out of a car and shooting her, which I believe happens in some or other car-jack game.

    I presume the depiction of child abuse is more about infamy, news coverage (advertising) and selling units, rather than anything to do with whacking a kid.
    I suspect even GTA forbids violence against kids. Many games are like that where kids are invincible e.g. Fallout New Vegas.

    http://gta-myths.wikia.com/wiki/Children
  13. 06 Dec '17 20:53
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Context is everything.

    If the game is (tongue in cheek) action and you shoot the crap out of people, it’s going to be experienced differently than if you follow a character’s life for a long period of time. Have to stab them and stand over their shaking body as they whine for their mother as they die.

    An example: did you cry during Star Wars or during Schindler’s list?
    More people die in Star Wars.

    Context. Can’t say it enough
    Yes, I agree about context.

    Which is what seems to be the problem here. Violence against women (again, why is gender an issue?) and children is seen as "not okay" in computer games, since people - in particular the ones mentioned in the first video - view computer games as "entertainment", possibly children's entertainment.

    Clearly (well, to me at least...), the child abuse in the trailer does not function as cheap sensationalism, but rather it is used to tell a story. Much like we see in books and films.
  14. 06 Dec '17 20:57
    The opening scene from The Last Of Us is worth a watch:

    YouTube
  15. 06 Dec '17 22:12 / 1 edit
    As I recall, there was a controversy about a computer game in which the (male) player was
    supposed to be an American soldier, cowboy, or settler fighting 'Indians' in the Old West.
    If the player was successful enough in killing 'Indians', he would be rewarded by having
    the opportunity to rape an 'Indian' woman (with a scene of simulated sexual assault).
    Obviously, the game's designers assumed that the players would be male (and not 'Indian' ).

    Traditionally, conquered women have been perceived as 'the spoils of war', and raping
    these women has been one of the dearest rewards for victorious warriors.