Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y3ngvdp2
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    30 Jun '16 23:171 edit
    China is full of extremely corrupt students who cheat in school. These corrupt students often will do anything to come to America's superior education system.

    http://www.cheatingculture.com/china/

    "This isn’t just about letting the guilty walk, it’s about encouraging future bad behavior. Jacobs interviewed Fang Shimin, a journalist who runs the muckraking website New Threads and who provided a particularly poignant example of how the mixed messages China is sending its citizens. Shimin reported on Chen Jin, a “computer scientist who was once celebrated for having invented a sophisticated microprocessor but who, it turned out, had taken a chip made by Motorola, scratched out its name, and clamed it as its own.” Even though Chen lost his university post, he “was never prosecuted,” and he seems to have retained the “government largess and accolades” which he received for his ‘discovery.’ “When people see the accused still driving their flashy cars, it sends the wrong message,” said Shimin."
  2. Behind the scenes
    Joined
    27 Jun '16
    Moves
    1420
    01 Jul '16 00:442 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    China is full of extremely corrupt students who cheat in school. These corrupt students often will do anything to come to America's superior education system.

    http://www.cheatingculture.com/china/

    "This isn’t just about letting the guilty walk, it’s about encouraging future bad behavior. Jacobs interviewed Fang Shimin, a journalist who runs the ...[text shortened]... ople see the accused still driving their flashy cars, it sends the wrong message,” said Shimin."
    You are 100% correct. I think it is little different however than American banks and insurance companies defrauding public, paying a fine when convicted (without admitting guilt) then doing it all over again. Reprehensible as this students actions were, cheating and corruption is not indigenous to China.

    ::Transmitted from the shrouded mists of antiquity::
  3. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    To the Left
    Joined
    25 Jun '06
    Moves
    64930
    01 Jul '16 10:50
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    China is full of extremely corrupt students who cheat in school. These corrupt students often will do anything to come to America's superior education system.

    http://www.cheatingculture.com/china/

    "This isn’t just about letting the guilty walk, it’s about encouraging future bad behavior. Jacobs interviewed Fang Shimin, a journalist who runs the ...[text shortened]... ople see the accused still driving their flashy cars, it sends the wrong message,” said Shimin."
    One wonders why cheating students expect to do better in America. After all, since they are characterised by their cheating behaviour rather than academic excellence, they would presumably not prosper in an environment where cheating was more difficult.

    Cheating or not, it is well known over here that America is the place to go to buy a qualification.
  4. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    01 Jul '16 14:20
    Originally posted by finnegan
    One wonders why cheating students expect to do better in America. After all, since they are characterised by their cheating behaviour rather than academic excellence, they would presumably not prosper in an environment where cheating was more difficult.
    That doesn't actually follow.

    Let us suppose there are two fairly good students in a high school in China. There is stiff competition to get into Harvard. One of the students cheats, thus enabling the student to secure a place in Harvard. Are you suggesting that the student will not excel at Harvard because they cheated to get in?
    How well they do in US universities will have more to do with how they adapt to US life as well as how the US system compares to the Chinese system of education. From what I hear the US system is generally easier and students from Asia tend to excel when they go to the US.

    Keep in mind also that we are talking about children - and the cheating is largely initiated by adults (parents, officials etc) so the cheating isn't necessarily ingrained into the children, nor are they necessarily poor students.
  5. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    01 Jul '16 14:23
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Cheating or not, it is well known over here that America is the place to go to buy a qualification.
    That is a key difference. Cheating tends to occur more where academic excellence outweighs wealth. If you can always buy a place in a university (not necessarily buying the qualification in this case) then you are less likely to cheat than if the only way to get in is through doing better than your peers.
  6. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    01 Jul '16 19:382 edits
    I know much more about Chinese students than an ignorant racist such as AThousandYoung,
    who created this thread while using an explicit racist slur (now deleted by RHP) against Chinese.
    (Another writer in this thread can confirm that he noticed AThousandYoung's racist slur.)
    Corruption in China is a very complex issue. But AThousandYoung's original claim
    that (all) '(racist slur against Chinese) are Cheaters' is certainly wrong.

    I) Competition is intense among students for the few available places in Chinese universities.
    By the way, this contributes to the resentment that some Chinese students have against
    the students (with weaker qualifications) from Africa whom the Chinese government
    gives places (and financial subsidies) in Chinese universities.

    2) The Chinese students who seek to enroll in American universities (most of which lack the
    prestige of Harvard or Stanford) as *undergraduates* usually are not among the best in China.
    Most of the best students attend Chinese universities as undergraduates, though often
    preferring to go abroad for further education. Many of the Chinese undergraduates in
    American universities are there because they failed to get into the elite Chinese universities
    of their choice. And their families are willing to spend vast amounts of money so they
    can get a foreign university education rather than go without a Chinese university education.

    3) China's top universities have been gradually improving in their international reputation.
    A quick look at the 2015-16 world university rankings ('Times Higher Education' ) shows
    three Chinese universities among the world's top fifty. Peking University (42nd) is ranked
    just ahead of the University of Tokyo (43rd). And I don't know of many students who
    regard the University of Tokyo as academically easy.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y3ngvdp2
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    01 Jul '16 21:337 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I know much more about Chinese students than an ignorant racist such as AThousandYoung,
    who created this thread while using an explicit racist slur (now deleted by RHP) against Chinese.
    (Another writer in this thread can confirm that he noticed AThousandYoung's racist slur.)
    Corruption in China is a very complex issue. But AThousandYoung's original cla ...[text shortened]... ). And I don't know of many students who
    regard the University of Tokyo as academically easy.
    Plenty of Chinese studying at UC Berkeley College of Chemistry - 40% of the campus was Asian when I was there. There were more Asian students than white.

    #1 chemistry program in the world which prides itself on not having grade inflation problems.

    Sadly, now I know how these students got into UCB.

    And I know why Chinese people are apparently 'successful' educationally.

    It is sad that China has a "yellow cheating complex".

    Funny you should mention Peking Unversity in this thread...

    "At Peking University Allegations of Plagiarism Fly" (Article)

    http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2008/01/14/at-peking-university-allegations-of-plagiarism-fly/

    At Yale, plagiarizing a paper lands a student in front of the Executive Committee, which can hand down punishments as stringent as expulsion. But according to a University professor who taught at Peking University this fall, at the Beijing school, the same offence seems to go unpunished.
    Ecology and Evolutionary Biology professor Stephen C. Stearns ’67 sent a passionate, 958-word e-mail to his students at PKU last month, bemoaning the rampant cheating he witnessed while teaching two courses at the university as part of a joint program between Yale and the school. In his message, Stearns said he was “leaving with very mixed feelings” because of the behavior he observed while in China, raising questions about the academic integrity of an institution that is a central partner in Yale’s internationalization efforts.
    “The fact that I have encountered this much plagiarism … tells me something about the behavior of other professors and administrators here,” Stearns wrote. “They must tolerate a lot of it, and when they detect it, they cover it up without serious punishment, probably because they do not want to lose face. If they did punish it, it would not be this frequent.”


    So China's got 3 in the top 50 eh?

    California has 4 in the top 20 including the #1 in the world (and USB Chemistry is #1 in Chemistry - it invented 3 elements, or is it 4? I forget.)
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y3ngvdp2
    Joined
    23 Aug '04
    Moves
    24791
    01 Jul '16 22:08
    My mistake. It's not 3 elements. UCB named 3 elements after itself; Berkelium, Californium, Americium.

    But it created 16. Including Plutonium.

    http://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-magazine/spring-2014-branding/branding-elements-berkeley-stakes-its-claims-periodic-table

    Let the other universities brand themselves with the presidents they’ve produced, the corporations they’ve midwifed, their location in a small town outside of Boston, or their number one football team.

    At Berkeley, we’re OK with being number 97. On the periodic table of elements. You may have heard of “the table,” as we call it around here. It’s sort of the ingredients list for the universe. All of it, including presidents, corporations, slushy college towns, and inferior (spiritually) football teams.

    Yup. Good ol‘ 97, berkelium, Bk for short. Or you could look us up under number 98, californium. Mind you, we didn’t name these elements after ourselves until after we had graciously bestowed like honor on an entire continent or two when our researchers synthesized and named number 95, americium. Modesty, you know.

    And who could forget the most exciting element Berkeley introduced to the world, number 94, plutonium? Really, it’s probable that no other university has done as much to threaten the existence of human civilization. Sorry, Yale.

    And then there’s seaborgium, lawrencium, astatine, and on and on. Berkeley and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory can claim 16 elements.
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    01 Jul '16 22:351 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Plenty of Chinese studying at UC Berkeley College of Chemistry - 40% of the campus was Asian when I was there. There were more Asian students than white.

    #1 chemistry program in the world which prides itself on not having grade inflation problems.

    Sadly, now I know how these students got into UCB.

    And I know why Chinese people are apparentl ...[text shortened]... the world (and USB Chemistry is #1 in Chemistry - it invented 3 elements, or is it 4? I forget.)
    AThousandYoung (who recently used an explicit racist slur against Chinese) shows that his
    obsessive racist hatred is directed against everyone of Chinese heritage, not only those in
    the People's Republic of China. AThousandYoung has a long record of fanatical anti-Chinese racism.
  10. Shanghai
    Joined
    16 Feb '06
    Moves
    115085
    02 Jul '16 13:55
    Chinese students are probably valued for their work ethic, and the fact they are not much trouble. And they pay a lot of cash.

    Over the last 3 years we have failed high school students for academic dishonesty, however they all got University places in the US. Maybe these Universities should be more interested in academic honesty than chasing RMB.
  11. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    02 Jul '16 18:071 edit
    Originally posted by deriver69
    Chinese students are probably valued for their work ethic, and the fact they are not much trouble. And they pay a lot of cash.

    Over the last 3 years we have failed high school students for academic dishonesty, however they all got University places in the US. Maybe these Universities should be more interested in academic honesty than chasing RMB.
    Let's consider this from a market perspective:
    In China, there's more demand for a university education than there's supply in Chinese
    state universities. And when something is scarce, people tend to try harder get it.

    The best students can enter Chinese state universities and usually prefer to do so, at least
    as undergraduates, because it's much less expensive than entering American universities.
    But what can students do when they fail to be accepted by the Chinese universities of their choice?
    Some families (often making great sacrifices) are willing 'to pay a lot of cash' so these
    students can try an American university education rather than go without any university education.
Back to Top