Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Seongnam, S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    20331
    07 Oct '18 11:10
    @duchess64 said
    In the open event, the USA (with mostly Asian American players) was the top seed.
    Going into the final round, the USA was ahead of China on tie-breaks.
    But the tie-breaks reflect the accumulated scores of previous opponents, so it's
    quite possible that tie-breaks could change after a round, and that's what happened.

    For instance, China and the USA had a strong opponen ...[text shortened]... ), I have not noticed any
    Americans here congratulating the Chinese for their historic achievement.
    I am curious -- you said:

    The USA (with mostly Asian American players)...

    How is that relevant?

    Do you think that Asians have superior cognitive abilities, or some superior cultural features that give them this edge over non-Asians who are Americans?

    I ask because you are such a prolific poster of anti-racism yet... you know... it comes off a little flat and insincere sometimes, like your position is actually something else but this is the useful guise for it.
  2. Joined
    05 Nov '06
    Moves
    81758
    07 Oct '18 12:59
    @duchess64 said
    The abusive racist Mott-the-Hoopie fails to comprehend a basic concept of sportsmanship.
    Yet you fail to understand the US is made up of the world demographic. Every race is represented here.
  3. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    139050
    07 Oct '18 13:06
    @mott-the-hoople said
    Yet you fail to understand the US is made up of the world demographic. Every race is represented here.
    And the Trump administration, along with Bannon and others, is trying to do something about that. 🙂
  4. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    07 Oct '18 18:00
    @mchill said
    Due in no small part to the fact the Chinese government subsidizes the top Chinese players. Frankly I'm surprised the Americans finished as well as they did.
    The arrogant troll Mchill keeps showing his abysmal ignorance.

    "Frankly I'm surprised the Americans finished as well as they did."
    --Mchill

    In fact, in the open event, the US team (the defending champion from 2016) was SEEDED FIRST
    Why should Mchill be so surprised that the top seed (highest rated) US team finished second?
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    07 Oct '18 18:212 edits
    @mchill said
    Mchill 'knows' nothing about chess in China except for obsolete stereotypes.

    Wrong again Duchess. The Chinese government's financial backing of it's top players is the worst kept secret in the chess world. I know you would have us believe the Asian mind of far superior to those dumb white people, but I'm afraid your racism, and ignorance of the facts is showing once again. ...[text shortened]... ess players who play regularly.
    - Bill Wall

    http://billwall.phpwebhosting.com/articles/China.htm
    The obstinate ignorant troll Mchill, who was so 'surprised' (his word) that the top
    seeded US team finished as high as second in the open event might know propaganda
    about Chinese chess players. He does NOT know any top Chinese chess players,
    whereas I have spoken with several of them.

    The Chess Drum is an American website devoted to black African or black American chess.
    Bill Wall's an American chess fan with no expertise on China or chess in China.
    I doubt that he can read any Chinese sources.

    Wang Hao (now rated 2722 FIDE, 4th highest in China) has complained in public
    about his financial insecurity as a chess professional. Could Mchill please forward
    the payments to him that he presumes Wang Hao's owed by China's government?

    Top players like Wang Yue (once ranked in the world's top ten) and Li Chao are
    able to make a living as chess professionals mainly through being paid to train
    young players at their own school rather than through playing for themselves.

    The troll Mchill absurdly acts as though Chinese players are *uniquely* blessed with financial support.
    It's true that Chinese players are paid to participate in the Olympiad, but so are
    all the players from other major chess countries, including the USA.
    In the USA, top junior players may receive the Samford Fellowship (now worth
    42000 USD per year) or other support from Rex Sinquefield, a wealthy patron.

    Just before the 2018 Olympiad, Putin himself visited (shown on television) the
    training camp for the Russian teams, where he exhorted the players to win for Родина.
    This shows the much greater importance that Russia's government puts on success in international chess.

    It's wrong to believe that Chinese teams won both gold medals (upsets) at the
    2018 Olympiad because Chinese players allegedly receive financial support from
    their government whereas players from every other country supposedly do not.
    As I noted, Russia (led by Putin) is more deeply invested in international chess success.

    Years ago, Xie Jun (whom I have met), a women's world champion, criticized a
    book by Susan Polgar (which was popular in the USA) for propagating absurd
    stereotypes about top Chinese players, including herself. She regarded it as offensive.
    The obstinate troll Mchill apparently prefers to cling to these absurd stereotypes.
  6. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    07 Oct '18 18:322 edits
    @philokalia said
    I am curious -- you said:

    The USA (with mostly Asian American players)...

    How is that relevant?

    Do you think that Asians have superior cognitive abilities, or some superior cultural features that give them this edge over non-Asians who are Americans?

    I ask because you are such a prolific poster of anti-racism yet... you know... it comes off a little f ...[text shortened]... incere sometimes, like your position is actually something else but this is the useful guise for it.
    There's a tradition of racism in American chess, reflecting more general racism in the USA.
    American racists here may like to feign ignorance of this reality.

    Until fairly recently, about all the top American players were white, and white racial
    supremacist beliefs thrived even more among American players than they do today.
    It was common for white American players to assume that non-white players never
    would be able to compete at the top level of chess in the USA.

    Indeed, it's still common (as some of the more overt white racial supremacists here
    have implied) for racist white American players to believe that no black Americans
    can reach the top level of chess in the USA. Maurice Ashley, the only black American GM
    (an immigrant from Jamaica), never has been a contender for the US championship.

    To this day, American pop culture or the non-chess US media apparently still
    stereotypes American chess champions as white (particularly Jewish).
    I suspect that this ignorant stereotyping will continue for a long time.
  7. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    08 Oct '18 18:561 edit
    @duchess64 said
    This is the first time since 1986 (USSR) when teams from the same country won
    gold medals in both the open and women's events at the same chess Olympiad.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/05/chess-china-win-olympiad-england-fourth-place

    "China’s triumph was their second Olympiad gold, following Tromso in 2014,
    and was achieved despite a third board failure ...[text shortened]... this victory was somewhat surprising.
    At the 2016 Olympiad, the Chinese women won by a wide margin.
    Also unusually, both Chinese players on board 1, Ding Liren (who hobbled around
    on crutches while recovering from injury) for the open team and Ju Wenjun (in the
    absence of Hou Yifan, the world's highest rated woman) for the women's team,
    won individual gold medals for their performances on board 1.

    At the chess com website, there are photos of Ding Liren having to be helped
    to walk (on crutches) on and off the stage to accept his gold medals.

    It's worth noting that Ding Liren has said (at least until recently) that he does not consider
    himself a potential world champion because he assumes that he lacks the talent of,
    say, the younger Wei Yi (who has been inconsistent), the youngest player ever
    (at age 15) to become rated 2700+ FIDE. Yet Ding Liren has become the first
    Chinese player to be rated 2800+ FIDE, now ranked 4th in the world and gaining.

    Do I foresee Chinese 'domination' at the chess Olympiads? Not really.
    If China sends (unlikely) all its strongest women players (or even all its strongest
    except Hou Yifan, the world's top woman), then China should win the women's event.
    In the open event, however, I foresee China competing on approximately equal
    terms with the USA and other top teams, winning sometimes, not winning other times.
  8. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10113
    08 Oct '18 19:16
    @duchess64 said
    This is the first time since 1986 (USSR) when teams from the same country won
    gold medals in both the open and women's events at the same chess Olympiad.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/oct/05/chess-china-win-olympiad-england-fourth-place

    "China’s triumph was their second Olympiad gold, following Tromso in 2014,
    and was achieved despite a third board failure ...[text shortened]... this victory was somewhat surprising.
    At the 2016 Olympiad, the Chinese women won by a wide margin.
    Did the Chinese sedate the losers and take their organs to sell, or is that just those locked away in their jails?
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