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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    21 Jan '11 17:57
    Interesting article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

    Let's ignore the geographical connotations of the labels and focus on the methods. It seems to me the Chinese method goes against most of what I think parenting should be like. What do you guys think? Am I blinded by my cultural bias?
  2. 21 Jan '11 18:19
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Interesting article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

    Let's ignore the geographical connotations of the labels and focus on the methods. It seems to me the Chinese method goes against most of what I think parenting should be like. What do you guys think? Am I blinded by my cultural bias?
    And perhaps the Chinese parents think the same about western parenting.

    Yes, we are all blinded by our respective culture bias, all of us.
  3. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    21 Jan '11 18:20
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    And perhaps the Chinese parents think the same about western parenting.

    Yes, we are all blinded by our respective culture bias, all of us.
    Do you have a comment on the issue or are you going to just repeat platitudes?
  4. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    21 Jan '11 18:29
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Interesting article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

    Let's ignore the geographical connotations of the labels and focus on the methods. It seems to me the Chinese method goes against most of what I think parenting should be like. What do you guys think? Am I blinded by my cultural bias?
    It seems like it would be a difficult sell for a culture that prizes 'rugged individualism' above all else. It also seems as though such an educational system would produce a population less likely to question authority in general. You may be able to breed (or train) a race of piano prodigies, but at what cost elsewhere?
  5. 21 Jan '11 18:35
    I'm not sure, are these children (and later as adults) generally happier than their western counterparts?
  6. 21 Jan '11 18:35
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Interesting article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

    Let's ignore the geographical connotations of the labels and focus on the methods. It seems to me the Chinese method goes against most of what I think parenting should be like. What do you guys think? Am I blinded by my cultural bias?
    I know high-achieving Chinese parents of high achieving daughters who were not raised anywhere near as strictly as Ms. Chua raised her daughters. The only thing the daughters I know were urged by their parents was NOT to go into the hi-tech computer industry (Where the father made millions). The two daughters are doctors now.

    My own daughter CHOSE to spend a lot of time in dance and some time in piano and basketball and cheer leading, and took a lot of AP classes and has a Master's degree and is building a successful PR firm in L.A. We just watched her do that, pretty much. I did "push" her to get the Master's degree but that was after she was out on her own and the only way I "pushed" was by telling her I would pay for it, which I am still doing.

    There is a large genetic component to success in life. Consider the possibility that Ms. Chua's daughters would have turned out fine without the harsh treatment. That can be tested, not for an individual case, but on the large scale.

    Finally, it depends on what we consider to be a high-achieving outcome. Poor but happy might be fine, for some folks.
  7. 21 Jan '11 18:42
    I think the "No TV" rule probably makes the most difference.

    Worth noting: there is a relatively interesting documentary "babies".
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1020938/
    The difference in how these newborns are reared is stark. I particularly enjoyed the mongolian portion. They have it streaming on netflix, fwiw.
  8. 21 Jan '11 19:16
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Interesting article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

    Let's ignore the geographical connotations of the labels and focus on the methods. It seems to me the Chinese method goes against most of what I think parenting should be like. What do you guys think? Am I blinded by my cultural bias?
    Some of the deprivations imposed on those children seem rather unreasonable( for example not watch TV or participate in school plays). I guess my question would be, what is the objective of raising kids in such way? It all seems to suggest the motivation behind such way of raising children is some sort of middle-class pretension or distorted notions of what it valuable in society.
  9. 21 Jan '11 19:31
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Some of the deprivations imposed on those children seem rather unreasonable( for example not watch TV or participate in school plays). I guess my question would be, what is the objective of raising kids in such way? It all seems to suggest the motivation behind such way of raising children is some sort of middle-class pretension or distorted notions of what it valuable in society.
    Funny, I thought the no tv was the most reasonable. My parents didn't let us watch tv all summer. I grew up to be an adult that has gone most of his adult life without a tv. I find it to be a giant timesink, brain rotting device. Instead my wife and I make time to play music, read, do crafts, etc.
  10. 21 Jan '11 19:36
    Originally posted by tmetzler
    Funny, I thought the no tv was the most reasonable. My parents didn't let us watch tv all summer. I grew up to be an adult that has gone most of his adult life without a tv. I find it to be a giant timesink, brain rotting device. Instead my wife and I make time to play music, read, do crafts, etc.
    Obviously I wouldn't say that letting children watch too much TV is recommendable, but still, no TV at all seems unjustified. I personally favor moderation in all things.
  11. 21 Jan '11 20:09
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Do you have a comment on the issue or are you going to just repeat platitudes?
    Relax. This is a debate.

    I just commenting your posting, and agreed to it, and added some. I don't think your posting is any platitude.

    We always have to think about cultural bias when we discuss intercultural matters. Don't you agree?
  12. 21 Jan '11 20:40
    I don't have any facts to back this up but I think as long as parents don't go out of their way to be bad parents their children will do fine. Now if you're a junky who preaches about the good news with a heroin needle sticking out of your arm to you children then they will probably turn out horrible.
  13. 21 Jan '11 22:18 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Interesting article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

    Let's ignore the geographical connotations of the labels and focus on the methods. It seems to me the Chinese method goes against most of what I think parenting should be like. What do you guys think? Am I blinded by my cultural bias?
    Are Chinese parents who have immigrated to America a representative sample of "all Chinese parents"?

    Do they represent anything more than a very specific strata of Chinese society? -- or do they more represent all people who leave their native land and immigrate to America because they want desperately for their children to have a better life.

    And are they really all that much different from the stereotypical American "Ivy League" parent who has their kid doing 27 different activities to pad their high school resumes so it'll look good to the admissions officers?
  14. 21 Jan '11 22:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Interesting article:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

    Let's ignore the geographical connotations of the labels and focus on the methods. It seems to me the Chinese method goes against most of what I think parenting should be like. What do you guys think? Am I blinded by my cultural bias?
    also
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

    per capita income in China is around $8000-yr -- while in the US, it's close to $50,000.

    Even in the current economy, the B-level kid in America will still be very likely to get a job that will give them a comfortable living. So American parents can afford to be more lenient and let their kids enjoy their childhood. But the B-level kid in China will be stuck with a job giving them a living standard well below America's minimum wage. So a good Chinese parent has to be a lot more demanding, because the "good jobs" are much more scarce in China -- amidst the fierce competition, only the straight A-level kids will have any chance.
  15. 21 Jan '11 23:53
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    Are Chinese parents who have immigrated to America a representative sample of "all Chinese parents"?

    Do they represent anything more than a very specific strata of Chinese society? -- or do they more represent all people who leave their native land and immigrate to America because they want desperately for their children to have a better life.

    And ...[text shortened]... activities to pad their high school resumes so it'll look good to the admissions officers?
    Good question. Ms. Chua came to the US when she was 8 years old, which would be about 40 years ago. Her parents are highly accomplished professionals, one a professor at UC Berkeley. She attended El Cerrito HS. So yes, one cannot extrapolate from her to typical parents in China. She typifies the next generation after, and the values of, educated parents who had the wherewithal and ambition to escape the Cultural Revolution "Designed to purge capitalist thought from the country" -- Wikipedia. In the 70's, I lived in an area of Northern California that had an excellent K-12 school system. When a house went on the market, it had a good chance of being purchased sight unseen by a Chinese family ready and waiting for a home -- any home -- in the right school system to become available.

    Not totally unlike the Cubans who left Cuba after Castro took over.