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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member vivify
    rain
    12 Jun '16 20:03
    While homosexuality is a matter of birth, I don't fully agree that being trans-gendered is. Gender is a social construct, not a biological one. So how can one be born "the wrong gender" if gender (not sex) is purely cultural?
  2. 12 Jun '16 20:59 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    While homosexuality is a matter of birth, I don't fully agree that being trans-gendered is.
    Gender is a social construct, not a biological one. So how can one be born "the wrong gender" if gender (not sex) is purely cultural?
    Evidently, Vivify's completely ignorant of the academic field of gender studies or gender theory.
    Although it's far above his abysmal level of 'reading comprehension', I would suggest
    the influential book _Gender Trouble_ (1990) by Judith Butler.

    And *if* Vivify *sincerely* (which seems extremely unlikely) wants to learn more about
    transgender people, then he could start by respectfully considering what transgender
    people say about themselves. There are many memoirs by diverse transgender people.
  3. 12 Jun '16 21:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    While homosexuality is a matter of birth, I don't fully agree that being trans-gendered is. Gender is a social construct, not a biological one. So how can one be born "the wrong gender" if gender (not sex) is purely cultural?
    If homosexuality is a matter of birth how will you explain those who were heterosexuals and who later became homosexuals, those who are bi-sexual and those who practised homosexuality and gave it up and became either celibate or adopted heterosexual practices?
  4. Standard member vivify
    rain
    12 Jun '16 21:08
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Evidently, Vivify's completely ignorant of the academic field of gender studies or gender theory.
    Although it's far above his abysmal level of 'reading comprehension', I would suggest
    the influential book _Gender Trouble_ (1990) by Judith Butler.
    Oh, is Duchy upset? Try actually contributing a useful point. It'll brighten your day.
  5. 12 Jun '16 21:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Oh, is Duchy upset? Try actually contributing a useful point. It'll brighten your day.
    The extremely arrogant ignorant troll Vivify keeps showing that he has no serious interest in learning.
    In contrast to Vivify, some people could learn something by reading _Gender Trouble_ by Judith Butler.

    Caissad4, a transgender woman, has praised me for my insightful posts about transgender people.
    I doubt that the troll Vivify's usual insults at me would change her opinion of me.
  6. Standard member vivify
    rain
    12 Jun '16 21:12
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    If homosexuality is a matter of birth how will you explain those who were heterosexuals and who later became homosexuals, those who are bi-sexual and those who practised homosexuality and gave it up and became either celibate or adopted heterosexual practices?
    Different topic.
  7. 12 Jun '16 21:16
    Originally posted by vivify to Robbie Carrobie
    Different topic.
    While I generally disagree with Robbie Carrobie, I believe that it's fair enough for Robbie Carrobie
    to challenge Vivify's statement "homosexuality is a matter of birth" and ask him to support it.
  8. 12 Jun '16 21:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Different topic.
    On the contrary you began your opening remarks with the statement and I quote, 'while homosexuality is a matter of birth', I am challenging that assumption. But if it detracts from the issue of gender that you want to discuss then ok, no worries.
  9. Standard member vivify
    rain
    12 Jun '16 21:18
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The extremely arrogant ignorant troll Vivify keeps showing that he has no serious interest in learning.
    In contrast to Vivify, some people could learn something by reading _Gender Trouble_ by Judith Butler.
    Posting a link to a book without explaining what points from the link make it relevant, doesn't add anything. I can't click on it and read it, nor can anyone else.

    If you have anything useful to add, that will be welcome.
  10. 12 Jun '16 21:21
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    While I generally disagree with Robbie Carrobie, I believe that it's fair enough for Robbie Carrobie
    to challenge Vivify's statement "homosexuality is a matter of birth" and ask him to support it.
    Vivify I think is correct, this thread is about gender and such a discussion will only detract from it. We should respect that.
  11. 12 Jun '16 21:24 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    Posting a link to a book without explaining what points from the link make it relevant,
    doesn't add anything. I can't click on it and read it, nor can anyone else.

    If you have anything useful to add, that will be welcome.
    The arrogant troll Vvify's too lazy and stupid to comprehend that learning about gender theory
    can require more work than just looking up a short article on the internet. If Vivify wants a
    summary of _Gender Trouble_ by Judith Butler, there's a Wikipedia article about it.

    If Vivify were a medical student, then he presumably would act like it's too much trouble for him
    to study medical textbooks as long as he could look up all that he needed to know at WebMD.
  12. 12 Jun '16 21:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    While homosexuality is a matter of birth, I don't fully agree that being trans-gendered is. Gender is a social construct, not a biological one. So how can one be born "the wrong gender" if gender (not sex) is purely cultural?
    If homosexuality is a matter of birth, why is it that if one identical twin is homosexual the other one probably is not?

    “Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

    http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/identical-twin-studies-prove-homosexuality-is-not-genetic

    Once again personal belief in your mind is absolute truth.
  13. 12 Jun '16 21:28
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Vivify I think is correct, this thread is about gender and such a discussion will only detract from it. We should respect that.
    But issues of sexual orientation have not been always considered completely unrelated to issues of gender.
    I am aware of some controversial hypotheses within the diverse transgender communities.
  14. 12 Jun '16 21:36
    Why all this discussion about such a small segment of society?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/
  15. 12 Jun '16 22:01
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Why all this discussion about such a small segment of society?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/
    Why indeed? It should be as irrelevant as, say, whether one has red hair; and would that legislation and public attitudes could make it so!