Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    06 Jun '18 17:11
    YouTube

    A local church is housing an undocumented family to protect them from deportation as part of the growing sanctuary movement.


    Pretty hard to keep shouting "teh trk ohr jerbs" when you learn about actual people. Not hard at all for some people
  2. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    06 Jun '18 17:23
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTFUt4pEN38

    A local church is housing an undocumented family to protect them from deportation as part of the growing sanctuary movement.


    Pretty hard to keep shouting "teh trk ohr jerbs" when you learn about actual people. Not hard at all for some people
    "sanctuary movement"

    You mean the one that has a large and growing number of municipalities in California raising hell and vowing not to vote demorat?

    Fine if a church wants to assist people in breaking federal law, but the bible instructs them otherwise, so that's on them. The church may be offering food and shelter, but they aren't offering sanctuary. Lawbreakers are not protected by "hallowed ground."

    A family that crosses the border, overstays a visa, or otherwise willfully breaks Federal immigration law, is directly at fault for any damages they incur.

    I know, I know... Republicans are a bunch of racist bigots seething with hatred that take pleasure in "ripping families apart." Go ahead.
  3. Germany
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    06 Jun '18 18:33
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    "sanctuary movement"

    You mean the one that has a large and growing number of municipalities in California raising hell and vowing not to vote demorat?

    Fine if a church wants to assist people in breaking federal law, but the bible instructs them otherwise, so that's on them. The church may be offering food and shelter, but they aren't offering sanc ...[text shortened]... of racist bigots seething with hatred that take pleasure in "ripping families apart." Go ahead.
    If federal law were changed so that it would be easier for these people to come to the U.S. legally, would you support well-meaning, peaceful individuals doing so?
  4. SubscriberTom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
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    06 Jun '18 18:44
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    If federal law were changed so that it would be easier for these people to come to the U.S. legally, would you support well-meaning, peaceful individuals doing so?
    Lawfully? Absolutely!
  5. Germany
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    06 Jun '18 18:49
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Lawfully? Absolutely!
    We're agreed then. Do you realize, however, that making it easier to lawfully migrate, while reducing illegal immigration, also increases overall immigration? The only reason illegal immigration exists is because the U.S. government wants to discourage immigration.
  6. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    06 Jun '18 19:01
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    We're agreed then. Do you realize, however, that making it easier to lawfully migrate, while reducing illegal immigration, also increases overall immigration? The only reason illegal immigration exists is because the U.S. government wants to discourage immigration.
    No sovereign nation has any business encouraging immigration, but for the want of immigrants who bring something to the table.

    My brother (wiccan pagan occultist that he is) desperately wants to leave the USA and move to Prague. But that will never happen because the Czech Republic requires that you verify a good bit of wealth, so they can be assured you won't be kicking back and living off the government dole. Every country has the right to make requirements of prospective immigrants. A century ago, America was turning down people with simple colds or the flu, because of strict regulations regarding health. Just kicked 'em back to the boat and sent 'em back from whence they came.
  7. Germany
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    06 Jun '18 20:02
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    No sovereign nation has any business encouraging immigration, but for the want of immigrants who bring something to the table.

    My brother (wiccan pagan occultist that he is) desperately wants to leave the USA and move to Prague. But that will never happen because the Czech Republic requires that you verify a good bit of wealth, so they can be assured ...[text shortened]... ons regarding health. Just kicked 'em back to the boat and sent 'em back from whence they came.
    Migration of U.S. citizens between Texas and Oklahoma isn't "encouraged" in any specific way. Nor do migrants need to show that they "bring something to the table." There's a difference between encouraging and not discouraging. The choice is this: make legal migration difficult, and accept some degree of illegal immigration, or make it easy and solve the issue of illegals. You can't pretend to find it of vital importance to eliminate illegal migration while promoting its main cause.

    In fact, it is quite easy for a U.S. citizen to migrate to some EU state, and from there you can move to Prague, if you wish. Sounds like your brother isn't sincere about wanting to move to Prague. In any case, while it is a beautiful city, it's not one I would particularly recommend to live in, given other choices in Europe.

    In fact, near the end of the 19th Century, the U.S. had a de facto open border policy with respect to migrants from Europe - most of them illiterate, poor, and not English-speaking. There were hardly "strict" regulations - 98% of the people who arrived at Ellis Island were let through.
  8. Joined
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    06 Jun '18 20:17
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    "sanctuary movement"

    You mean the one that has a large and growing number of municipalities in California raising hell and vowing not to vote demorat?

    Fine if a church wants to assist people in breaking federal law, but the bible instructs them otherwise, so that's on them. The church may be offering food and shelter, but they aren't offering sanc ...[text shortened]... of racist bigots seething with hatred that take pleasure in "ripping families apart." Go ahead.
    this particular family created several jobs for americans. came to the US legally. followed all the rules and was branded illegal because of a paperwork mishandling by their lawyer. pays taxes.

    their daughter is a US citizen. so rather than grant them a path to citizenship (after 18 freakin years) the great country that is the US has decided that this family (and the dreamers, and several other illegals) is such a great threat to national security that they must be kicked out.
    Why? because the incompetent Trump administration cannot deliver meaningful measures to improve the lives of americans so they are doing the easiest, most heartless thing they can to appeal to ignorant idiotic "republicans " that are "a bunch of racist bigots seething with hatred that take pleasure in "ripping families apart.""

    Meaningful economic measures that help the working class are hard, especially if you don't want to touch the pocket change of millionaires and billionaires in the slightest.
    Pointing at immigrants and telling ignorant americans, like you, that they are to blame is easy, made easier the dumber and more ignorant those americans (like yourself) are.
  9. SubscriberTom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
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    06 Jun '18 20:25
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Migration of U.S. citizens between Texas and Oklahoma isn't "encouraged" in any specific way. Nor do migrants need to show that they "bring something to the table." There's a difference between encouraging and not discouraging. The choice is this: make legal migration difficult, and accept some degree of illegal immigration, or make it easy and solve t ...[text shortened]... re hardly "strict" regulations - 98% of the people who arrived at Ellis Island were let through.
    My grandmother emigrated from Sweden and signed papers at Ellis Island. :-)

    Good stuff. Excellent post. Hat tip to you.
  10. Behind the scenes
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    07 Jun '18 22:23
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    "sanctuary movement"

    You mean the one that has a large and growing number of municipalities in California raising hell and vowing not to vote demorat?

    Fine if a church wants to assist people in breaking federal law, but the bible instructs them otherwise, so that's on them. The church may be offering food and shelter, but they aren't offering sanc ...[text shortened]... of racist bigots seething with hatred that take pleasure in "ripping families apart." Go ahead.
    A family that crosses the border, overstays a visa, or otherwise willfully breaks Federal immigration law, is directly at fault for any damages they incur.


    As an Independent, I must side with the right wing on this one. I don't like Donald Trump's idea of an immigration policy, but when entire states start breaking ranks with the Federal government, we have a problem as a nation. Hopefully the courts can settle this issue in a civilized manner.
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