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  1. 01 Sep '16 02:39 / 1 edit
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/31/colin-kaepernick-protest-racism-even-if-white-adoptive-parents

    "Colin Kaepernick can protest racism. Even if he has white adoptive parents."
    --Rebecca Carroll

    "We are children of our adoptive parents, but we are also children of black culture and history."
    --Rebecca Carroll

    :"Even if Kaepernick were white, shouldn't he still care about racism?
    Shouldn't everybody care about racism?"
    --Rebecca Carroll

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/.2016/aug/31/colin-kaepernick-traitor-national-anthem-protest-nfl

    "Colin Kaepernick branded a 'traitor' by NFL executives over anthem protest"

    One official said that Colin Kaepernick has become as hated as Rae Carruth, a
    former NFL player who was convicted of conspiring to murder his pregnant girlfriend.
    Ignoring a symbol of US nationalism is as terrible as attempting to murder one's pregnant girlfriend?

    In a society dominated by fanatical nationalism and the pursuit of money,
    it's refreshing to see a professional athlete who's unafraid to take an
    unpopular position in public, sacrificing any commercial endorsements
    and risking his career.
  2. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    01 Sep '16 05:40 / 1 edit
    I would only say this: What goes around, comes around. This is not the first time for this in America.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Baseball Hall-of-Famer Jackie Robinson, who died at the age of 53 in 1972, would simply be remembered as one of the greatest players of all time were it not for the color of his skin and the special circumstances of his career. On 15 April 1947, Robinson became the first African American to play major league baseball since the game became completely segregated in the 1880s. He had been hired away from the Kansas City Monarchs, a Negro League team, by Brooklyn Dodgers general manager Branch Rickey, who, in what came to be called "the noble experiment," carefully orchestrated Robinson's introduction to the general public, first via a stint with the minor league Montreal Royals, then by calling him up for his major league debut with the Dodgers at the start of the 1947 season.

    With the color line officially broken, the way was paved for more African American players to enter the major leagues, bringing 60 years of segregation in baseball to close. Jackie Robinson ultimately became a much-beloved public figure and an emblem for the changes in race relations that were gradually beginning to occur across America. Years later, Martin Luther King Jr. would honor Robinson as a "legend and a symbol" who "challenged the dark skies of intolerance and frustration." What many people didn't realize was how hard it had been for him.

    When he came to write his autobiography, I Never Had It Made, with Alfred Duckett in 1972, Robinson said he felt proud, but seemed bitter as well:

    "It hadn't been easy. Some of my own teammates refused to accept me because I was black. I had been forced to live with snubs and rebuffs and rejections. Within the club, Mr. Rickey had put down rebellion by letting my teammates know that anyone who didn't want to accept me could leave. But the problems within the Dodgers club had been minor compared to the opposition outside. It hadn't been that easy to fight the resentment expressed by players on other teams, by the team owners, or by bigoted fans screaming "nigger." The hate mail piled up. There were threats against me and my family and even out-and-out attempts at physical harm to me.
    Some things counterbalanced this ugliness. Black people supported me with total loyalty. They supported me morally: they came to sit in a hostile audience in unprecedented numbers to make the turnstiles hum as they never had before at ballparks all over the nation. Money is America's God, and business people can dig black power if it coincides with green power, so these fans were important to the success of Mr. Rickey's "Noble Experiment."
    Some of the Dodgers who swore they would never play with a black man had a change of mind when they realized I was a good ballplayer who could be helpful in their earning a few thousand more dollars in World Series money. After the initial resistance to me had been crushed, my teammates started to give me tips on how to improve my game. They hadn't changed because they liked me any better, they had changed because I could help fill their wallets."

    Robinson wrote that despite developing genuine friendships with some of his teammates, and feeling genuine love from many of the fans, he had never stopped feeling like an outsider in his own game, and in his own country:

    "There I was, the black grandson of a slave, the son of a black sharecropper, part of a historic occasion, a symbolic hero to my people. The air was sparkling. The sunlight was warm. The band struck up the national anthem. The flag billowed in the wind. It should have been a glorious moment for me as the stirring words of the national anthem poured from the stands. Perhaps, it was, but then again, perhaps, the anthem could be called the theme song for a drama called The Noble Experiment. Today, as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr. Rickey's drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made."

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Copy-pasted from this webpage: http://www.snopes.com/jackie-robinson-anthem
  3. 01 Sep '16 11:20
    he has the right to protest against whatever he wants. he has the right to protest however he wants as long as he doesn't hurt anyone.
  4. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Sep '16 11:42
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    he has the right to protest against whatever he wants. he has the right to protest however he wants as long as he doesn't hurt anyone.
    ...or discriminate against anyone, that's bad, and he will receive counseling, forced counseling if necessary, and if he resists the counseling force will be met with ever increasing force.

    That's fair.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Sep '16 12:45 / 2 edits
    Kaepernick is free to do or say what he likes, of course, and I would never blame him for expressing his opinion.

    What is interesting, however, is that Kaepernick never protested and always stood for the anthem as long as he was going to the Super Bowl and considered by many to be a potentially great QB.

    Now that he's fallen on hard times with a couple of poor seasons and now that he seems destined to start the season as a backup, a bitter pill for someone whom some were saying had the potential to be one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history back in 2012, NOW he decides to protest.

    This action by Kaepernick at this time seems less like a protest and more like a loser's tantrum. If he really wanted to make a splash, he should have sat during the Anthem at the Super Bowl in 2012.

    My guess is that if Chip Kelly installed him as starter tomorrow and the Niners won a few games, he'd be quiet as a mouse in church.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Sep '16 12:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I would only say this: What goes around, comes around. This is not the first time for this in America.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Baseball Hall-of-Famer Jackie Robinson, who died at the age of 53 in 1972, would simply be remembered as one of the greatest players o ...[text shortened]... ----------------

    Copy-pasted from this webpage: http://www.snopes.com/jackie-robinson-anthem
    Jackie Robinson lived in a very different era and certainly earned his stripes in the battle for equality.

    I'm not sure what Colin Kaepernick has done for equality other than regressing to mediocre as a player, thereby increasing league parity.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Sep '16 13:01 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/31/colin-kaepernick-protest-racism-even-if-white-adoptive-parents

    "Colin Kaepernick can protest racism. Even if he has white adoptive parents."
    --Rebecca Carroll

    "We are children of our adoptive parents, but we are also children of black culture and history."
    --Rebecca Carroll

    :"Even if Kaeper ...[text shortened]...
    unpopular position in public, sacrificing any commercial endorsements
    and risking his career.
    One more thing: In American sports, the event is pretty much the whole ball of wax.

    Tom Brady could drop his pants and moon the flag during the National Anthem and nobody would say "boo" (okay, slight exaggeration there). Kaepernick isn't going to get any endorsements right now because he's been a mediocre player for the last 2 years. Last year, in 9 games, he averaged under 180 yards/game, threw only 6 TDs and 5 picks and ran up a 78.5 QB rating. For those who don't know anything about American Football, those are poor numbers in today's day and age.

    If he starts performing like he did in 2012 and 2013, the endorsements and popularity will come back even if he stands on his head during the National Anthem.
  8. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    01 Sep '16 14:40
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/31/colin-kaepernick-protest-racism-even-if-white-adoptive-parents

    "Colin Kaepernick can protest racism. Even if he has white adoptive parents."
    --Rebecca Carroll

    "We are children of our adoptive parents, but we are also children of black culture and history."
    --Rebecca Carroll

    :"Even if Kaeper ...[text shortened]...
    unpopular position in public, sacrificing any commercial endorsements
    and risking his career.
    Nationalism, patriotism, flags, standing.... What a complete load of bollocks!

    The yanks really have to stop being such a bumch of simpletons.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Sep '16 17:52
    It's also plausible that Kaepernick did what he did specifically for the purpose of setting up a racism/retaliation charge when Kelly benches him for Week 1.
  10. 01 Sep '16 19:01
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I would only say this: What goes around, comes around. This is not the first time for this in America.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Baseball Hall-of-Famer Jackie Robinson, who died at the age of 53 in 1972, would simply be remembered as one of the greatest players o ...[text shortened]... ----------------

    Copy-pasted from this webpage: http://www.snopes.com/jackie-robinson-anthem
    In 1996 Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, a black American who had converted to Islam, decided to
    protest against conforming to the expected patriotic observance during the US national anthem.

    http://theundefeated.com/features/abdul-rauf-doesnt-regret-sitting-out-national-anthem

    "Still No Anthem, Still No Regrets for Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf:
    NBA star lost millions after sitting in 1996--and he'd do it again."
    --Jesse Washington (1 September 2016)

    "Twenty years later, despite losing years of prime NBA stardom, enduring death threats and
    having his home burned to the ground, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf still does not stand for the national anthem."
    --Jesse Washington

    "Like Kaepernick, Abdul-Rauf said he viewed the American flag as a symbol of oppression and racism.
    Abdul-Rauf also said that standing for the anthem would conflict with his Muslim faith."
    --Jesse Washington

    "It's priceless to know that I can go to sleep knowing that I stood to my principles.
    Whether I go broke, whether they take my life, whatever it is, I stood on my principles.
    To me, that is worth more than wealth and fame."
    --Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (2016)
  11. 01 Sep '16 20:00
    Originally posted by sh76
    One more thing: In American sports, the event is pretty much the whole ball of wax.

    Tom Brady could drop his pants and moon the flag during the National Anthem and nobody would say "boo" (okay, slight exaggeration there). Kaepernick isn't going to get any endorsements right now because he's been a mediocre player for the last 2 years. Last year, in 9 games, ...[text shortened]... rsements and popularity will come back even if he stands on his head during the National Anthem.
    The American sports' commercial endorsement marketplace is not free from racial prejudice.

    In 1992 Kristi Yamaguchi won a Olympic gold medal in figure skating for the USA.
    She was the first non-white woman to become an American Olympic champion 'ice queen'.
    Evidently, her Japanese heritage made her less appealing to American advertisers than if she were white.
    Although she got some commercial endorsements, she apparently was regarded as
    significantly less marketable than earlier white 'ice queens' like Peggy Fleming or Dorothy Hamill.
    Evidently, some American companies believed that having an ethnic Japanese woman
    endorse products for a mostly white American audience would not work, particularly in a
    time with ample American hostility toward Japan's economic competition.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/1992-03-08/to-marketers-kristi-yamaguchi-isnt-as-good-as-gold

    "To Marketers, Kristi Yamaguchi Isn't as Good as Gold"
    --Laura Zinn (8 March 1992)

    "Kristi Yamaguchi is red-hot. She's lithe, pretty, and telegenic. ... 'Kristi has no offers
    [of commercial endorsements] yet', says her agent."

    In the interest of fairness, Kristi Yamaguchi's agent (a white man) later denied (wouldn't he?)
    that her Japanese heritage was an issue because the corporations that *chose* to contact
    him *never explicitly* brought it up as a potential problem. Of course not. If a corporation
    considered Kristi Yamaguchi's Japanese heritage to be a problem, then it would *not*
    have approached her agent in the first place. It's absurd to pretend that racial prejudice
    cannot exist simply because it's not explicitly mentioned.

    "Would it [commercial endorsement offers] be better if she (Kristi Yamaguchi) was
    blonde and blue-eyed and from Greenwich, Connecticut? Yeah, it'd be better."
    --Martin Blackman (talent agent based in New York)

    Kristi Yamaguchi and her parents were born in the USA. (Her mother was born in a
    wartime internment camp.) She speaks fluent American English.

    To sum up, Kristi Yamaguchi's Japanese heritage seems to have been a significant,
    though not insurmountable obstacle, toward her obtaining commercial endorsements.
  12. 01 Sep '16 20:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Kaepernick is free to do or say what he likes, of course, and I would never blame him for expressing his opinion.

    What is interesting, however, is that Kaepernick never protested and always stood for the anthem as long as he was going to the Super Bowl and considered by many to be a potentially great QB.

    Now that he's fallen on hard times with a couple o ...[text shortened]... lled him as starter tomorrow and the Niners won a few games, he'd be quiet as a mouse in church.
    "I would never blame him [Colin Kaepernick] for expressing his opinion."
    --Sh76

    Really? But (in several posts) Sh76 seems to be doing his utmost to insinuate that Colin
    Kaepernick's public protest against American racism is insincere or, at best, shallowly held.
    Sh76 seems to be insinuating that Colin Kaepernick's motivated most of all by money.
    I don't know Colin Kaepernick personally, and I suspect that Sh76 does not know him any better.

    Would Sh76 like to denounce Muhammad Ali for *not* declaring that he's a Muslim and
    changing his name from 'Cassius Clay' *before* he beat Sonny Liston to become the
    heavyweight world champion in professional boxing? Would Sh76 like to claim that
    Muhammad Ali was *insincere* about his beliefs because he came out 'too late'?
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Sep '16 20:11 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The American sports' commercial endorsement marketplace is not free from racial prejudice.

    In 1992 Kristi Yamaguchi won a Olympic gold medal in figure skating for the USA.
    She was the first non-white woman to become an American Olympic champion 'ice queen'.
    Evidently, her Japanese heritage made her less appealing to American advertisers than if she we ...[text shortened]... significant,
    though not insurmountable obstacle, toward her obtaining commercial endorsements.
    I'll agree with your first statement that "The American sports' commercial endorsement marketplace is not free from racial prejudice." Racial prejudice probably has some effect on endorsements. But I don't think the effect is very large.

    Abdul-Rauf's refusal to stand occurred on March 12, 1996. He was suspended for one game, but then compromised with the league and came back and the issue does not seem to have impacted his career. He played 2 more years in the league and his NBA career ended only after his 1998 season (2 years later) after a season in which he shot only 37.7% from the field and averaged only 7.3 points per game. It was his mediocre performance in 1998 that meant the end of this NBA career (though he did come back and play in the NBA in 2000), not a 1996 refusal to stand for the Anthem. Any assertion that his refusal to stand cost him his career or "millions" seems exceedingly self-serving.

    Carlos Delgado protested against the US by silently staying in the dugout during the playing of "God Bless America" during the seventh inning stretch in 2004 and yet, in 2005, he signed a four-year, $52 million contract with the Florida Marlins and ended up playing until 2010.

    You can protest anything in American sports if you can put up the numbers. If you can't, then nobody cares what you think anyway.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Sep '16 20:15
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "I would never blame him [Colin Kaepernick] for expressing his opinion."
    --Sh76

    Really? But (in several posts) Sh76 seems to be doing his utmost to insinuate that Colin
    Kaepernick's public protest against American racism is insincere or, at best, shallowly held.
    Sh76 seems to be insinuating that Colin Kaepernick's motivated most of all by money.
    I ...[text shortened]... ke to claim that
    Muhammad Ali was *insincere* about his beliefs because he came out 'too late'?
    I have no idea precisely when Ali decided to convert, though his conduct during the rest of his life shows clearly that his conversion was sincere.

    Is it possible that Kaepernick just recently had his awakening and that's why he's protesting now and not in 2012 when he was going to the Super Bowl or 2013 when he was still considered the heir apparent QB? Yes, it's possible. But I doubt it. The timing is incredibly suspicious. He decides to protest right at the time that he's about to be relegated to second string to start a season for the first time since his career started in earnest. It's possible that it's a coincidence, but color me skeptical.
  15. 01 Sep '16 20:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    I'll agree with your first statement that "The American sports' commercial endorsement marketplace is not free from racial prejudice." Racial prejudice probably has some effect on endorsements. But I don't think the effect is very large.

    Abdul-Rauf's refusal to stand occurred on March 12, 1996. He was suspended for one game, but then compromised with the lea ...[text shortened]... can sports if you can put up the numbers. If you can't, then nobody cares what you think anyway.
    In an apparently desperate attempt to convince mostly white American audiences (in
    addition to prospective advertisers) that she's *really American*, Kristi Yamaguchi
    sometimes performed in a costume that made her appear like she was wearing a US flag
    (nothing else). White American figure skaters did not wear costumes that looked almost
    exactly like US flags because they already were certain of their acceptance as real Americans.

    Although Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf's 1997-98 NBA season was comparatively 'mediocre'
    (averaging 7.3 points in 17.1 minutes per game), it was *still better* than that of some
    other players who were offered contracts in the NBA *next season*. Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
    claims that he received no offers at all from NBA teams, so he went to play overseas.
    At age 29, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf would have received at least one offer from a NBA team
    *if* he had been perceived as a less controversial player. My conclusion is that a NBA
    team would have been willing to tolerate Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf's form of protest as long
    as he was a star player (or close), but once he apparently slipped to become an average
    (or even marginal) player, he would *not* be given an opportunity to revive his career.

    I suspect that, if he had been less controversial, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (at age 29) could
    have kept playing, even if he no longer was a star, in the NBA for a few more seasons.
    Given that he would have been earning millions USD each NBA season, it's reasonable
    to add up the sums as his lost potential income.