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Debates Forum

  1. Subscribersonhouse
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    27 Jan '16 18:50
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "..because someone was trying to kill them and they would be instant brothers ..."
    --Sonhouse

    Not necessarily. During the Second World War, there was an incident involving a USAAF
    unit (segregated) of black pilots (the Tuskegee airmen). A white South African pilot in the RAF
    (who seemed extremely racist even by white South African standards) was h ...[text shortened]... .
    Even decades later, surviving black American pilots spoke with bitterness about the incident.
    It would probably be a different story if they were both in a literal foxhole with bullets flying aiming for them. Their chances for survival would be better with two defenders than one, as if in one scenario, the white fighter hated the black comrade so much he killed him so he wouldn't have to fight with him so would probably think better of that idea if it had come into his head. 'Nah, not right now, I'll off him after things cool off''.
  2. Zugzwang
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    27 Jan '16 22:091 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It would probably be a different story if they were both in a literal foxhole with bullets flying aiming for them. Their chances for survival would be better with two defenders than one, as if in one scenario, the white fighter hated the black comrade so much he killed him so he wouldn't have to fight with him so would probably think better of that idea if it had come into his head. 'Nah, not right now, I'll off him after things cool off''.
    An American veteran of the Vietnam War told me about the practice of 'fragging'.
    Sometimes when an extremely unpopular American officer went out on patrol into the
    jungle, another American soldier would intentionally kill him. Other American soldiers
    preferred to see this American officer dead rather than still fighting on their side.

    This American veteran also told me about the custom of 'becoming a double veteran'.
    This referred to American soldiers raping and then murdering Vietnamese women or girls.
    ('Double' referred to the rape and the murder.) He was acquainted with some soldiers
    who boasted of becoming 'double veterans', and they never were punished by the US military.
  3. Zugzwang
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    28 Jan '16 20:37
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    It would probably be a different story if they were both in a literal foxhole with bullets flying aiming for them. Their chances for survival would be better with two defenders than one, as if in one scenario, the white fighter hated the black comrade so much he killed him so he wouldn't have to fight with him so would probably think better of that idea if it had come into his head. 'Nah, not right now, I'll off him after things cool off''.
    During the Second World War, Hungary and Romania were both members of the Axis.
    Hungarian and Romanian armies fought as allies of Germany against the USSR.
    But Hungary and Romania had an extremely bitter territorial dispute. After the First World War
    (when Hungary and Romania took opposing sides), the Treaty of Trianon had awarded
    Transylvania (with its large Hungarian population) to Romania. To this day, this issue
    is a passionate grievance for Hungarian nationalists.

    The Germans had to take care to keep Hungarian and Romanian units separated on the Ostfront
    because, to put it simply, the Hungarians and Romanians hated each other and often would
    rather fight against each other than their supposed common enemy in RKKA (Soviet Army).
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    28 Jan '16 22:04
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    During the Second World War, Hungary and Romania were both members of the Axis.
    Hungarian and Romanian armies fought as allies of Germany against the USSR.
    But Hungary and Romania had an extremely bitter territorial dispute. After the First World War
    (when Hungary and Romania took opposing sides), the Treaty of Trianon had awarded
    Transylvania (with i ...[text shortened]... n would
    rather fight against each other than their supposed common enemy in RKKA (Soviet Army).
    Sounds like they had good reason. How are the Hungarians and Romanians getting along now in Romanian territory? Probably like Jews V Palestinians if it was that bitter.
  5. The Catbird's Seat
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    28 Jan '16 22:11
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    An American veteran of the Vietnam War told me about the practice of 'fragging'.
    Sometimes when an extremely unpopular American officer went out on patrol into the
    jungle, another American soldier would intentionally kill him. Other American soldiers
    preferred to see this American officer dead rather than still fighting on their side.

    This American ...[text shortened]... ers
    who boasted of becoming 'double veterans', and they never were punished by the US military.
    And your believe this person, why?
  6. Zugzwang
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    28 Jan '16 22:45
    Originally posted by normbenign
    And your believe this person, why?
    What he said has been confirmed by ample reliable published sources.
  7. Zugzwang
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    28 Jan '16 22:521 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Sounds like they had good reason. How are the Hungarians and Romanians getting along now in Romanian territory?
    Probably like Jews V Palestinians if it was that bitter.
    Romania, but not Hungary, was Germany's ally from the start of the Axis invasion of the USSR.
    How could Hungary be provoked into joining the campaign? Romania's air force did a secret
    'false flag' operation against Hungary. Flying at high altitude (as though they come from
    the direction of the USSR), Romanian aircraft bombing a Hungarian town, inflicting hundreds
    of civilian casualties. An unexploded bomb was dropped with markings in Russian.
    The outraged Hungarians assumed that the Soviet VVS did it and declared war on the USSR.

    Bela Karolyi, a famous coach of women's gymnastics, is an ethnic Hungarian from Romania.
  8. The Catbird's Seat
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    28 Jan '16 23:02
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    What he said has been confirmed by ample reliable published sources.
    Sounds pretty shaky to me.
  9. Zugzwang
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    28 Jan '16 23:17
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Sounds pretty shaky to me.
    I already know how fanatically Normbenign wants to deny American war crimes in Indochina.
  10. Zugzwang
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    29 Jan '16 03:191 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Sounds pretty shaky to me.
    Normbenign has claimed to have observed (or even coached) multiple American girls (ages 10-12)
    who could run 100 meters in 11.0 seconds. Anyone who knows anything about women's
    sprinting knows how ludicrous is that claim by Normbenign, a pathological liar.

    On account of his fanatical ideological biases, however, Normbenign prefers to dispute
    the meaning of expressions such as 'fragging' (killing an unpopular officer) and
    'becoming a double veteran' (American soldiers raping and killing Vietnamese women or girls)
    in the context of the US war in Indochina.
  11. Subscribersonhouse
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    29 Jan '16 12:539 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Normbenign has claimed to have observed (or even coached) multiple American girls (ages 10-12)
    who could run 100 meters in 11.0 seconds. Anyone who knows anything about women's
    sprinting knows how ludicrous is that claim by Normbenign, a pathological liar.

    On account of his fanatical ideological biases, however, Normbenign prefers to dispute
    the mea ...[text shortened]... ldiers raping and killing Vietnamese women or girls)
    in the context of the US war in Indochina.
    100 METRES

    6 14.89 0.0 Stacey Onyepunuka USA 18 Oct 06 Mesa AZ 6 Jul 13
    7 14.05A 1.3 Stacey Onyepunuka USA 18 Oct 06 Air Force Academy CO 6 Jul 14
    8 13.63 1.3 Lauren Williams USA 25 Jul 99 Gardena CA 8 Jun 08
    9 12.95 -1.1 Tia Jones USA 8 Sep 00 Atlanta GA 20 Jun 10
    10 12.54 1.5 Tia Jones USA 8 Sep 00 Augusta GA 26 Jun 11
    11 12.31 0.1 Ishunique Hamilton USA 16 Dec 97 Des Moines IA 8 Aug 09
    12 11.77 0.2 Tamari Davis USA 15 Feb 03 Jacksonville FL 4 Apr 15
    13 11.75 -0.2 Kimone Shaw JAM 28 Sep 99 Kingston 15 Mar 13
    14 11.40 0.7 Ashton Purvis USA 12 Jul 92 Sacramento CA 28 Apr 07
    15 11.17 2.0 Marion Jones USA 12 Oct 75 Norwalk CA 1 Jun 91
    16 10.98 2.0 Candace Hill USA 11 Feb 99 Shoreline WA 20 Jun 15
    17 10.98 2.0 Candace Hill USA 11 Feb 99 Shoreline WA 20 Jun 15
    18 10.89 1.8 Katrin Krabbe GER 22 Nov 69 Berlin 20 Jul 88
    19 10.88 2.0 Marlies Oelsner GER 21 Mar 58 Dresden 1 Jul 77

    These are records, but the age is 5 to 19, but only 4 are under 11 seconds. The ages seems to be listed on the left hand column.

    A single 12 yo girl under 12 seconds. None under 11. They have to be 16 and up for that.

    I wonder how many minutes it would take ME to run 100 meters🙂
  12. The Catbird's Seat
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    29 Jan '16 13:151 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    100 METRES

    6 14.89 0.0 Stacey Onyepunuka USA 18 Oct 06 Mesa AZ 6 Jul 13
    7 14.05A 1.3 Stacey Onyepunuka USA 18 Oct 06 Air Force Academy CO 6 Jul 14
    8 13.63 1.3 Lauren Williams USA 25 Jul 99 Gardena CA 8 Jun 08
    9 12.95 -1.1 Tia Jones ...[text shortened]... to 19, but only 4 are under 11 seconds. I would assume those would be the upper ages, 18,19 yo.
    The truth is that sub 12 second 100 meters was an elite time for females in the younger age group. Your presumption that the fastest time would be among the oldest teen girls is intuitive, but not necessarily true. HS girls tend to be slower than the preteens, with a few who train really hard, which tends to restrain Puberty, get faster.

    I would stipulate that the majority of youth times are manually operated stopwatches, except for a few national championship meets. Officially, times are supposed to be only recorded in tenths, not 100ths of seconds, always rounded up, although lots of HS times are recorded by overenthusiastic coaches, and inexperienced timers.

    Lots of preteen girls are very fast, and slow down as they mature into their young woman bodies. Out of 100 preteen track stars, less than 10% are still competing in high school, and even fewer keep improving into college and womanhood. Often, these college stars still aren't as fast as they were as preteens. There are obviously exceptions to every rule, and elite athletes both male and female are certainly exceptional.
  13. wherever I am needed
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    29 Jan '16 18:02
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    [b]100 METRES
    12 11.77 0.2 Tamari Davis USA 15 Feb 03 Jacksonville FL 4 Apr 15

    A single 12 yo girl under 12 seconds.
    Hello, just reading parts of this, but I think the table that you have produced is the record at each age, progressively.

    Thus, the record for a 12 year old girl would seem to be 11.77s. That doesnt mean that ONLY one girl of 12 has ever run under 12s. In theory, lots and lots could have run under 12s, but the FASTEST recorded was 11.77s.

    I am guessing the 3rd set of figures have something to do with wind assistance or not.

    Hope that clarifies things a little
  14. Joined
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    29 Jan '16 18:11
    Originally posted by normbenign
    And your believe this person, why?
    People believe her because she claims she is credible and she personally attacks those who disagree with her.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
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    29 Jan '16 19:05
    Originally posted by quackquack
    People believe her because she claims she is credible and she personally attacks those who disagree with her.
    Yup!
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