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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 01:00
    http://m.washingtontimes.com/

    From the link:
    The University of Washington, Tacoma’s Writing Center now instructs students that expecting proper grammar from others perpetuates racism and “unjust language structures.”



    A perfect example of how leftists in the US view education. I know Euro lefties do not like to admit this type of leftist stuff, but it is true.
  2. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 01:14
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8628930/ns/msnbc-the_ed_show/t/does-ebonics-belong-curriculum/


    From not so long ago...
  3. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '17 02:561 edit
    The tireless troll Eladar has replaced FishHead111 as the most transparent (though more dishonest) racist in this forum.
  4. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 03:57
    University of Washington is the group being racist.
  5. Cape Town
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    24 Feb '17 09:23
    Originally posted by Eladar
    A perfect example of how leftists in the US view education. I know Euro lefties do not like to admit this type of leftist stuff, but it is true.
    A perfect example of the media making you think something is true when it isn't. The headline is incorrect. If you actually bothered to read the article, you would know that.
  6. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 11:16
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    A perfect example of the media making you think something is true when it isn't. The headline is incorrect. If you actually bothered to read the article, you would know that.
    Which article, the one in Washington or ebonics?

    Classes on ebonics did happen.
  7. Cape Town
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    24 Feb '17 11:213 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Which article, the one in Washington or ebonics?

    Classes on ebonics did happen.
    The article in the post I responded to. That you had to dodge tells me that you knew perfectly well that the article was misleading yet you posted it anyway. Dishonest much.

    (that last sentence has bad grammar, but nevertheless is legitimate English).
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Feb '17 11:26
    George Condon of the National Journal went through the transcripts of several of the president’s meetings with world leaders, and masochist that he is, counted 78 adjectives the president used in his descriptions — words like great, tremendous, fantastic, incredible, special, wonderful, terrific and big. Nothing wrong with any of them, used with care, precision and infrequency.
  9. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 11:27
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    The article in the post I responded to. That you had to dodge tells me that you knew perfectly well that the article was misleading yet you posted it anyway. Dishonest much.

    (that last sentence has bad grammar, but nevertheless is legitimate English).
    You are clueless. Perhaps you could provide the quote from the article that said, "It didn't happen"
  10. Cape Town
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    24 Feb '17 11:30
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You are clueless. Perhaps you could provide the quote from the article that said, "It didn't happen"
    Perhaps you could provide a quote from me saying 'it didn't happen'?
    I am not the clueless one, nor the dishonest one.
    Your second dodge is noted.
  11. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 11:54
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    A perfect example of the media making you think something is true when it isn't. The headline is incorrect. If you actually bothered to read the article, you would know that.
    Dodge?

    Hypocrite.

    Can't handle the truth so change the subject. You are pathetic.

    Any Euro lefties?

    So far we have D responding from D's world and the African speaking fron out of Africa.....


    What about the others? Will you too deny the obvious?
  12. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Feb '17 11:58
    Originally posted by Eladar
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8628930/ns/msnbc-the_ed_show/t/does-ebonics-belong-curriculum/


    From not so long ago...
    I'm trying to understand what you are complaining about. It's not easy to establish.

    I was taught Latin and Ancient Greek at school. That does not mean that at job interviews I burst into Ancient Greek and lose the job chance.

    So what is proposed here is the following: "Ebonics -- basically the codified version of African-American dialect -- should be incorporated into curriculum for black students to help them remain interested in school and to perform better. " In other words, as part of a curriculum in which many things are taught, it would be of great interest to include this option. Indeed, this is backed with evidence that black students perform better when given this option. OMG - evidence!! Run rabbit run!

    In your link, "Carlsen" is obsessed with the idea that this will not help black kids to get hired. This just shows how crass his ideas about education really are.

    Now however useless at work it has been for me to know a smattering of Ancient Greek, this has turned out to be of some value in appreciating cultural issues, and I often have in fact had reason to consider what the Greeks would think abouut a topic. One thing I do know they thought is that we do not seek knowledge for any particular economic benefit - students questioning the utility of knowledge [they did that even then] were treated with disdain. There are amusing anecdotes of such students being handed their fees back and told to go away.

    You are really in the position of arguing that it is racist for black kids to be educated in their own culture and taught to think about it critically, both in its own right and in its cultural context. That is what good education does - it enriches our understanding of our own lives and our place in the social and physical world. But hey- that won't get them a job in MacDonalds, will it?

    You are the racist here. You want a monolithic culture, in which only white supremacist values are taught and nothing is allowed to compete with or question your grandiose delusions of your own cultural superiority.
  13. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 12:05
    Originally posted by finnegan
    I'm trying to understand what you are complaining about. It's not easy to establish.

    I was taught Latin and Ancient Greek at school. That does not mean that at job interviews I burst into Ancient Greek and lose the job chance.

    So what is proposed here is the following: [i] "Ebonics -- basically the codified version of African-American dialect -- s ...[text shortened]... s allowed to compete with or question your grandiose delusions of your own cultural superiority.
    Is demanding grammatically correct papers at the University level racist?

    This is a simple yes or no question.
  14. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Feb '17 12:402 edits
    Interesting analogy in Britain is the series of Education Acts of 1872, when Britain was at the peak of imperial grandiosity. Ostensibly introducing universal primary education, because the empire created a huge demand for recruits to its service, the acts (for Scotland, Wales and Ireland respectively) barred teaching of the national languages (Gaelic, Welsh, Irish) and were overtly, explicitly intended to put a stop to national cultures, in which most children learned to speak and were taught in their own language. In other words, the agenda was to insist that everyone conform to the dominant English culture, language and value system. In all three nations, children who tried to speak in their own languages were punished quite severely and often unpleasantly, for example having soap in their mouths. The impression was conveyed that their own cultures were despicable and shameful and that the only way to get along in the new order would be to accept the dominant cultural values. It was an attempt at cultural genocide which was powerful because it was connected with access to economic opportunities and it did indeed have a huge impact. For example, in Wales the overwhelming majority of the people spoke Welsh before the acts, and within a generation the language was spoken only by a minority.

    Efforts to restore these languages frequently encounter the same old same old complaint - it is not useful for getting a job.
  15. Standard memberfinnegan
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    24 Feb '17 12:452 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Is demanding grammatically correct papers at the University level racist?

    This is a simple yes or no question.
    I commented on your Ebonics link and you want to distract me with reference to a different link. That, as Twitehead pointed out, is an evasive and typically dishonest debating tactic.

    I certainly see grammar closely associated with reasoning and I object to bad grammar when it displays bad thinking. However, the topic is wider than this... In many contexts, the issue is really about different ways of speaking and indicators that you are or are not part of a dominant group.
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