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  1. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '18 22:05
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/08/anne-frank-family-escape-us-visa-thwarted

    "Anne Frank's family tried escaping to US but thwarted by 'bureaucracy'
    New research says the family twice tried to obtain US immigration visas
    but were thwarted by red tape"

    "Gertjan Broek, a researcher at the Anne Frank House, and Rebecca Erbelding
    from the USHMM wrote in their report that Otto Frank, Anne’s father, began
    seeking ways to escape to the US as early as 1938. At the time, the US
    had no specific refugee policy, but enforced quotas based on national origin."

    "At the same time, the US public recorded increasingly negative attitude
    toward refugees. A May 1938 public opinion poll found that 67% of Americans
    surveyed said they wanted to keep German, Austrian and “other political
    refugees” out of the United States. By 1941, 71% of those polled said they
    believed the Nazis had established a US network of spies and saboteurs."

    "“The conclusion must be that both the Frank and van Pels families’ attempts
    were not successful because of the rapidly growing numbers of applicants
    for a small number of openings on the quota lists; the unwillingness of
    the president, State Department and Congress (or the American people)
    to open immigration beyond the limits set by the 1924 quota laws or to
    endeavor to fill these quotas; and, eventually, the impact of the war on
    the possibility of escape,” Broek and Erbelding wrote in the report,
    which was based on correspondence between Otto Frank and his friends
    as well as documents provided to the US authorities."
  2. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
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    08 Jul '18 22:12
    https://www.theage.com.au/news/world/what-mao-said-to-henry/2008/02/13/1202760396322.html

    "MAO Zedong proposed sending 10 million Chinese women to the United States, in talks with top envoy Henry Kissinger in 1973, according to documents released by the US State Department.

    The Chinese dictator said he believed such emigration could kick-start bilateral trade but could also "harm" the US with a population explosion similar to China's, according to documents covering US-China ties between 1973 and 1976.

    In a long conversation that stretched past midnight at Mao's residence on February 17, 1973, a cigar-smoking Mao referred to the dismal trade between the two countries, saying China was a "very poor country" and "what we have in excess is women"."
  3. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '18 22:202 edits
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    https://www.theage.com.au/news/world/what-mao-said-to-henry/2008/02/13/1202760396322.html

    "MAO Zedong proposed sending 10 million Chinese women to the United States, in talks with top envoy Henry Kissinger in 1973, according to documents released by the US State Department.

    The Chinese dictator said he believed such emigration could kick-start bilater ...[text shortened]... he two countries, saying China was a "very poor country" and "what we have in excess is women"."
    Given that his usual drivel is completely unrelated to this thread, the racist troll
    Wolfe63 keeps showing that his only motive here is to be a racist troll.

    Ruth Weiss, an Austrian Jew (from Vienna), was more fortunate than Anne Frank.
    She spent the Second World War in Shanghai (then under Japanese military occupation).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Weiss

    "[Ruth Weiss] married Yeh Hsuan, a Chinese engineer, with whom she had two children
    and went to the U.S. so he could pursue studies at MIT. Once the Chinese Revolution
    reached a climax in 1949, however, Weiss returned with her children to China, leaving
    Yeh in the U.S."

    Ruth Weiss chose to live in and become a citizen of the People's Republic of China.

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2009-06/01/content_7957399.htm

    "Ruth Weiss was a woman who truly loved China. She gave up a lot of opportunities to live a
    more comfortable life elsewhere in order to return to her adopted country and help build New China."
    --Scott Seligman (of the US-China Business Council)

    ""My father did not want to return to China and stayed in the US. She tried to convince him to
    join her in China but to no avail, and they divorced in, I believe, 1954," says Weiss' elder son.
    She returned to Beijing with her two sons in 1951 and became a German translator/editor
    at the Foreign Languages Press."

    During the Second World War, China admitted tens of thousands of European Jewish refugees,
    usually after they had been rejected by their preferred countries such as the USA or UK.
    A few of these European Jews stayed after 1949 and became citizens of the People's Republic of China.
  4. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    08 Jul '18 22:26
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Given that his usual drivel is completely unrelated to this thread, the racist troll
    Wolfe63 keeps showing that his only motive here is to be a racist troll.
    You don't like it when your threads are derailed?
    Oh...so sorry. I should be following your fine example of adherence, shouldn't I?

    Or...am I?
  5. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    08 Jul '18 22:42
    Peanut butter and jelly on white bread is an American sandwich classic. My favorite is crunchy peanut butter with apple or strawberry jelly. As an aside, my father's favorite sandwich was creamy peanut butter, mayonnaise, baloney, onion, and cold butter, on wheat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_butter_and_jelly_sandwich
  6. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '18 22:561 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Given that his usual drivel is completely unrelated to this thread, the racist troll
    Wolfe63 keeps showing that his only motive here is to be a racist troll.

    Ruth Weiss, an Austrian Jew (from Vienna), was more fortunate than Anne Frank.
    She spent the Second World War in Shanghai (then under Japanese military occupation).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/ ...[text shortened]... of these European Jews stayed after 1949 and became citizens of the People's Republic of China.
    "During the Second World War, China admitted tens of thousands of European Jewish refugees,
    usually after they had been rejected by their preferred countries such as the USA or UK"
    --Duchess64

    In her memoir _Underground in Berlin_, Marie Jalowicz, a young Jewish woman in Berlin,
    described her desperate plan to escape from the Nazis by marrying a Chinese man,
    quickly obtaining a Chinese passport (China's embassy was generous about giving
    these vital documents to the German women, usually Jewish, who married Chinese men)
    and moving to China. She knew that other German Jewish women already had succeeded.

    There were basically two kinds of Chinese men in Berlin at that time: students or workers.
    As an intellectual (after the war, she became an academic in the GDR), Marie Jalowicz
    would have preferred to marry a Chinese student, but she did not know anyone.
    So she visited a boarding-house where several Chinese laborers were staying.
    They asked her why she had come. She pretended that she was there because she
    was fascinated with Chinese culture and wished to learn how to speak Chinese.
    The Chinese men told her, in effect: "Don't lie to us. We are not that stupid. We know
    that you are a Jewish woman who's desperately seeking a Chinese man to marry her
    so she can get a Chinese passport and escape from Germany. Isn't that right?
    If you can be honest with us, then we can do business together."
    Marie Jalowicz admitted that was her true motive. The Chinese men asked for more
    money than she had. As she turned to leave, however, a desperately lonely Chinese
    man offered to marry her without payment. He just wanted her feminine companionship.

    At that time, Marie Jalowicz already had been sleeping with a German Jewish boyfriend.
    She said that the Chinese man was very nice, spent his scarce money to buy gifts for her,
    and never attempted to force himself upon her. But he spoke German with an accent
    that was so heavy that she could barely understand him. They had nothing in common.
    Marie Jalowicz declined to allow him any physical intimacy with her, such as kissing.
    In the meantime, her plan went ahead to get a marriage license. In desperation, she
    went to the Nazi authorities and claimed that she had to get married immediately because
    her Chinese fiance had impregnated her. She convinced him to play along with her deception.
    Rightly suspicious, the Nazi officials interrogated the Chinese man (who was a hopeless
    actor) and concluded that he had never even slept with Marie Jalowicz (who, in fact, had
    refused even to let him kiss her). So official permission for the marriage was denied.

    When Marie Jalowicz told this story to a rabbi, his initial response was to scold her for
    having fallen so low as to pursue a man who was not Jewish or even white for marriage
    in hoping to escape for the Nazis. Then he asked if she knew of any Chinese men
    who would be willing to marry his daughters so they could escape from the Nazis!

    Marie Jalowicz survived the war by hiding in Berlin, usually with German Communists.
    When Berlin was 'liberated', a Soviet soldier celebrated by raping her all night long,
    which she regarded as a comparatively minor price to pay for her survival.
    She became a Communist and preferred to stay in the GDR (East Germany).
    Her former Chinese fiance survived a Nazi concentration camp and stayed in Germany
    after the war, eventually marrying a German woman. They never met again, but she
    apparently remembered him as a well-meaning man who had attempted to help her.
  7. Behind the scenes
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    09 Jul '18 00:131 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/08/anne-frank-family-escape-us-visa-thwarted

    "Anne Frank's family tried escaping to US but thwarted by 'bureaucracy'
    New research says the family twice tried to obtain US immigration visas
    but were thwarted by red tape"

    "Gertjan Broek, a researcher at the Anne Frank House, and Rebecca Erbelding
    from ...[text shortened]... dence between Otto Frank and his friends
    as well as documents provided to the US authorities."
    Could Anne Frank Have Become an American?


    Since you already have the answer to this question Duchess, why do you feel the need to ask the same question in one of your posts??



    If I may offer a meger defence of the highly flawed American government and it's equally flawed white males that ran it at the time, I would suggest America had been recently attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor, it's navy nearly destroyed, and was facing Nazi war machine that was superior in many ways. Fighting a war on 2 fronts with a crippled navy and inferior ground forces is problematic under the best of circumstances (and those were NOT the best of circumstances!) Situations like that tend to produce a great deal of red tape. I'm very sorry for the plight of Anne Frank and for the many Jews that died at the hand of the Nazi's, but would suggest America was fighting for it's very survival, and mistakes were made in the process. I would further suggest American attacks against the Nazi's saved the lives of millions of additional Jews that would surely have been killed. Many thousands of white American males died to make this possible (a tiny detail that Duchess always forgets to mention)

    Maybe you'd better ask yourself something Duchess. Would the world be a better place if the axis powers had won??
  8. Zugzwang
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    09 Jul '18 01:182 edits
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Could Anne Frank Have Become an American?

    Since you already have the answer to this question Duchess, why do you feel the need to ask the same question in one of your posts??



    If I may offer a meger defence of the highly flawed American government and it's equally flawed white males that ran it at the time, I would suggest America had been recentl r ask yourself something Duchess. Would the world be a better place if the axis powers had won??
    Mchill spews more nonsense.

    Otto Frank (Anne's father) sought refuge for his family in the USA long
    BEFORE the USA entered the war. All of Mchill's claims about what
    happened after the USA entered the war are irrelevant to what already
    had happened to the Frank family before then.

    It"s absurd to claim that the USA was fighting for its "very survival."
    The mainland USA was never at serious risk of being invaded.
    (Japan invaded some of the Aleutians, which belonged to the territory,
    not yet the state, of Alaska.). The mainland USA was hardly ever bombed.
    A Japanese submarine launched a seaplane that dropped a token few bombs.
    US industries boomed when protected by oceans from the war fronts.

    Mchill seems to be trying for an absurd "wartime military necessity"
    justified prewar restrictive immigration and refugee policy in the USA
  9. Zugzwang
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    09 Jul '18 01:46
    The 1965 film "Morituri" takes a comparatively honest look at American
    anti-Jewish prejudices in the Second World War.

    Esther"s a German Jewish refugee who has become a nurse in the USA.
    She's the only woman with a group of American sailors, who were
    captured when their ship was sunk by a Japanese submarine, which
    transfers them to the custody of a German blockade runner.

    Contrary to modern expectations, most of the Americans don't regard
    her with sympathy for being a Jew; they regard her with suspicion or
    hostility for being German. An American remarks that he expects the
    German captain to give her preferential treatment for being German,
    even if she's Jewish. Later, she attempts to convince the Americans
    to join a plan by anti-Nazi German sailors to mutiny and take over the ship.
    The Anericans are divided, but they decide that it would be safer for
    them to stay POWs rather to fight. Instead, several Americans say
    that they would prefer to enjoy raping her. As an American starts to
    rip off her clothes, the desperate Esther 'volunteers' to sleep with
    all the American men if they will promise to help fight the Nazis.
    (Given the film's rating, there's no gang rape scene.)
  10. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Jul '18 02:29
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/08/anne-frank-family-escape-us-visa-thwarted

    "Anne Frank's family tried escaping to US but thwarted by 'bureaucracy'
    New research says the family twice tried to obtain US immigration visas
    but were thwarted by red tape"

    "Gertjan Broek, a researcher at the Anne Frank House, and Rebecca Erbelding
    from ...[text shortened]... dence between Otto Frank and his friends
    as well as documents provided to the US authorities."
    Do you think that the Americans should have altered their agreed refugee quotas, because of the situation in Germany in 1938?

    Obviously, in hindsight, yes.
    But at the time?
  11. Zugzwang
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    09 Jul '18 02:502 edits
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Do you think that the Americans should have altered their agreed refugee quotas, because of the situation in Germany in 1938?

    Obviously, in hindsight, yes.
    But at the time?
    US immigration policy was extremely racist, though mostly not directed against Jews.
    US immigration national quotas favored people from western and
    northern Europe over people from eastern and southern Europe.
    The USA almost completely excluded immigration from east Asia.

    It should be noted that many diverse peoples were suffering from
    persecution or war in the late 1930s. The brutal Spanish Civil War
    raged from 1936 to 1939. Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1935, and the
    Ethiopians continued a desperate resistance until 1939. In 1937, Japan
    started a nearly genocidal war in China, which lasted until 1945.

    In 1938, the Holocaust was not yet foreseen. Would thete be an objective
    reason to privilege the suffering of a German Jew above that of
    a Spanish refugee from the civil war, an Ethiopian refugee from
    Italy"s invasion, or a Chinese refugee from Japan's near genocide?
  12. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Jul '18 04:101 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    US immigration policy was extremely racist, though mostly not directed against Jews.
    US immigration national quotas favored people from western and
    northern Europe over people from eastern and southern Europe.
    The USA almost completely excluded immigration from east Asia.

    It should be noted that many diverse peoples were suffering from
    persecution ...[text shortened]... r, an Ethiopian refugee from
    Italy"s invasion, or a Chinese refugee from Japan's near genocide?
    My point exactly.
    The US would have had no reason to prioritise German refugees / immigrants.

    And yes, Chinese refugees should have been given priority. That was an unholy mess for years before 1938.

    However, I can’t honestly say I know what Europe’s stance was on Chinese / Asian refugees back then.
    I would presume the British would offer asylum in their Asian territories (Hong Kong, etc.).
    Can’t say I’ve ever heard much about it though.
    The whole Lytton commission and the consequences for the league of nation is well known, God only knows if there were even refugees from Manchuria.

    I’d have to look it up.

    Edit:
    Thinking about Manchuria, weren’t loads of Russian refugees living there at the time of the Japanese invasion? And if that is so, and they fled, wold they be Russian refugees or Manchurian refugees?

    Complete mess down there at the time.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    09 Jul '18 19:52
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Peanut butter and jelly on white bread is an American sandwich classic. My favorite is crunchy peanut butter with apple or strawberry jelly. As an aside, my father's favorite sandwich was creamy peanut butter, mayonnaise, baloney, onion, and cold butter, on wheat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_butter_and_jelly_sandwich
    PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!
  14. Zugzwang
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    09 Jul '18 20:17
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    My point exactly.
    The US would have had no reason to prioritise German refugees / immigrants.

    And yes, Chinese refugees should have been given priority. That was an unholy mess for years before 1938.

    However, I can’t honestly say I know what Europe’s stance was on Chinese / Asian refugees back then.
    I would presume the British would offer asylum i ...[text shortened]... , wold they be Russian refugees or Manchurian refugees?

    Complete mess down there at the time.
    "And yes, Chinese refugees should have been given priority."
    --Shavixmir

    The Chinese Exclusion Act remained US law until it was repealed (as an expedient) in December 1943.
    Then the US annual quota for Chinese immigrants was only a token 105 persons (out of
    China's estimated population of 400-500 million). It was not until after 1965 that there
    would be any significant increase in Chinese immigration to the USA.

    "I would presume the British would offer asylum in their Asian territories ..."
    --Shavixmir

    The UK had been allied by treaty with Japan until 1923. The UK had very hostile relations
    with the Republic of China (that's pre-Communist China for the benefit of the ignorant)
    largely because it was afraid that a successful independent China could encourage more
    Indians to pursue independence from the British Empire. (A pretext for Western imperialism
    in Asia was that white people had to rule Asians because Asians were incapable of self-government.)
    The British showed little or no sympathy for the Chinese suffering at the hands of the Japanese.

    During the Japanese invasion of Malaya (then a British colony), a then Anglophilic (despite
    overt British racism) Chinese lawyer volunteered to fight for the British against the Japanese.
    The British were evacuating women and children ahead of the advancing Japanese.
    When this Chinese lawyer asked that his wife be evacuated, the British denied it (even
    though there was enough space on the ship) on the explicit grounds that she's not white.
    So this Chinese woman would be left behind, presumably to be captured and raped and
    perhaps killed by Japanese soldiers. The previously 'loyal' Chinese lawyer vowed that he
    never could support the British again. Many other Chinese in Malaya then arrived at the
    same conclusion, helping to lead to a postwar ethnic Chinese uprising against British rule.

    "wold [sic] they be Russian refugees or Manchurian refugees?"
    --Shavixmir

    Racist US immigration laws would tend to regard a refugee's 'racial'/ethnic identity as
    more important than one's most recent geographical origin. Yul Brynner, who was born
    in Vladivostok of partly East Asian (Buryat) ancestry, was allowed to immigrate to the
    USA in 1940 (despite the fact that he could speak hardly any English).
  15. Standard memberapathist
    looking for loot
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    10 Jul '18 02:01
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Peanut butter and jelly on white bread is an American sandwich classic. My favorite is crunchy peanut butter with apple or strawberry jelly. As an aside, my father's favorite sandwich was creamy peanut butter, mayonnaise, baloney, onion, and cold butter, on wheat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_butter_and_jelly_sandwich
    Try preserves instead of jelly.
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