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  1. 16 Nov '17 16:32
    All my Zimbabwean friends are rejoicing that the era of Bob is finally over, but I'm not convinced. I only celebrate when the money is in the bank.
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    16 Nov '17 17:43
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    All my Zimbabwean friends are rejoicing that the era of Bob is finally over, but I'm not convinced. I only celebrate when the money is in the bank.
    I'm not familiar with Zimbabwean politics. What was it about his presidency that you disliked? I'm asking so I can learn more about it.
  3. 16 Nov '17 17:49
    Originally posted by @vivify
    I'm not familiar with Zimbabwean politics. What was it about his presidency that you disliked? I'm asking so I can learn more about it.
    Among Mugabe's crowning achievements is the confiscation of private farmland of Zimbabweans and giving the land to his cronies, leading to drastically lower production and shortages.
  4. Standard member vivify
    rain
    16 Nov '17 17:51
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    Among Mugabe's crowning achievements is the confiscation of private farmland of Zimbabweans and giving the land to his cronies, leading to drastically lower production and shortages.
    Wow. That's horrific.
  5. 16 Nov '17 17:53
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Wow. That's horrific.
    You can read more about it here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe
  6. 17 Nov '17 03:45
    Originally posted by @vivify to Ash
    I'm not familiar with Zimbabwean politics. What was it about his presidency that you disliked? I'm asking so I can learn more about it.
    While Robert Mugabe may have mismanaged Zimbabwe's economy and repressed his
    perceived political enemies, that kind of misbehavior seems common among African leaders.
    The real main reason why Robert Mugabe has been demonized for decades in the West is
    that he's perceived as racist against white people, not so much that he oppresses black people.

    When, after a long bloody war, Zimbabwe (formerly known as Rhodesia) became independent
    in 1980, a tiny white minority owned most of the country's most productive land.

    "White farmers continued to own 73.8% of the most fertile land suited for intensive
    cash crop cultivation and livestock grazing."
    --Wikpedia

    Land reform eventually became the government's confiscation of white farmers' lands,
    which then (as his critics charged) were turned over largely to Robert Mugabe's cronies.

    If I recall correctly, however, No1Marauder apparently expressed some approval of this 'land reform'
    and made some positive comments about Robert Mugabe as a democratically elected leader.
  7. 17 Nov '17 09:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    While Robert Mugabe may have mismanaged Zimbabwe's economy and repressed his
    perceived political enemies, that kind of misbehavior seems common among African leaders.
    The real main reason why Robert Mugabe has been demonized for decades in the West is
    that he's perceived as racist against white people, not so much that he oppresses black people.

    Whe ...[text shortened]... reform'
    and made some positive comments about Robert Mugabe as a democratically elected leader.
    "Mismanaged" being the understatement of the century. Zimbabwe has completely collapsed. There are roughly 3 million zimbabwean economic refugees in South Africa, doing menial jobs like gardening, domestic housework or uber driving, earning a pittance despite most of them being highly educated and many having degrees. The inflation rate reached 11 200 000 percent in 2008. It was so bad that people would black bags of billion Zimbabwe dollar notes around just to get bread. The zeros on the notes had to be printed on both sides of the note.

    Prices rose so fast that prices would double every hour. People would leave home with enough money to buy bread and arrive only to find they could no longer afford it. People's life savings became worthless in a matter of hours.

    This is not to mention the mass shortages of food caused by the collapse in farm output. The land reform was so mismanaged that the land was given to people who had eithee no interest to farm the land or lacked the interest to do so. Millions of people who had been employed on Zimbabwe's world famous tobacco farms lost their livelihoods.

    Unemployment remains over 80% with some estimates at 95%.

    Lastly, Bob and his wife Grace Marufu have used the reserve bank of zimbabwe as their personal bank account. Grace would travel to Paris and London and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in a matter of hours on shopping sprees until she was banned. Now they shop in malaysia and Indonesia.

    Lastly, anyone who says mugabe is " democratically elected" is deluded. There is just no two ways about it. He has used intimidation and rigging to maintain a dictator's grip on the country for nearly 40 years. His family lives the life of luxury while Zimbabweans starve.
  8. 18 Nov '17 01:49
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    "Mismanaged" being the understatement of the century. Zimbabwe has completely collapsed. There are roughly 3 million zimbabwean economic refugees in South Africa, doing menial jobs like gardening, domestic housework or uber driving, earning a pittance despite most of them being highly educated and many having degrees. The inflation rate reached 11 200 00 ...[text shortened]... n the country for nearly 40 years. His family lives the life of luxury while Zimbabweans starve.
    I am not a supporter of Robert Mugabe. I was pointing out that the main reason why
    white people in the West hate Robert Mugabe is because he's perceived as an anti-white
    racist who unfairly deprived white farmers of their land. If Robert Mugabe had somehow
    managed to oppress only black people, then he would be much less hated in the West.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi

    "Gukurahundi is a Shona language term which loosely translates to "the early rain which
    washes away the chaff before the spring rains".[6] In Zimbabwe, it has particular reference
    to an operation in the 80s whereby suspected anti-government elements among the
    Ndebele community were identified, detained, attacked and eliminated by government forces."

    Many more Westerners (though not Vivify) seem aware of what Mugabe did to white farmers
    than to black people in the Gukurahundi.

    By the way, I have communicated with a white woman (born in Rhodesia) who still lives in Harare.

    "Anyone who says mugabe is "democratically elected" is deluded."
    --Ash

    There have been threads here about the politics of Zimbabwe or southern Africa in general.
    No1Marauder (an 'armchair terrorist', as Finnegan called him) apparently took some unusual
    positions (for a white American), including his endorsement of 'necklacing' (which the
    ANC later officially condemned) in South Africa's struggle against apartheid.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing

    "Necklacing is the practice of summary execution and torture carried out by forcing a
    rubber tire, filled with petrol, around a victim's chest and arms, and setting it on fire."
  9. 18 Nov '17 05:05
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    I am not a supporter of Robert Mugabe. I was pointing out that the main reason why
    white people in the West hate Robert Mugabe is because he's perceived as an anti-white
    racist who unfairly deprived white farmers of their land. If Robert Mugabe had somehow
    managed to oppress only black people, then he would be much less hated in the West.

    https:/ ...[text shortened]... a
    rubber tire, filled with petrol, around a victim's chest and arms, and setting it on fire."
    Necklacing is still used occasionally in vigilante killings. For example, in a township, if there is a known thief or rapist, sometimes people will necklace the person instead of spending years at the police station. It hasn't happened in a while now but it was in the news around about 2014.

    If there is one thing I miss about the UK it is that South Africans are hardcore, and crime is a problem if you are the unaware type. With deep rooted structural unemployment of 27% (perhaps the worst side affect of apartheid, caused by bantu education) crime is a problem because of desperate people who cannot find work.

    On the Zimbabwe front, he still hasn't actually stepped down. I'm waiting rather impatiently for this to happen!
  10. 21 Nov '17 20:40
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Necklacing is still used occasionally in vigilante killings. For example, in a township, if there is a known thief or rapist, sometimes people will necklace the person instead of spending years at the police station. It hasn't happened in a while now but it was in the news around about 2014.

    If there is one thing I miss about the UK it is that South A ...[text shortened]... front, he still hasn't actually stepped down. I'm waiting rather impatiently for this to happen!
    When threatened with impeachment, Robert Mugabe has resigned as the President of Zimbabwe.
    How many cheers does this act deserve? Two? Three?
  11. 21 Nov '17 22:08
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    When threatened with impeachment, Robert Mugabe has resigned as the President of Zimbabwe.
    How many cheers does this act deserve? Two? Three?
    Halle bloody lujah. It was about time. 37 years later.
  12. 21 Nov '17 22:09
    I hope that Emmerson Mnangagwa has the best interests of the people of Zimbabwe at heart at this crucial time.
  13. 21 Nov '17 23:48
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    When threatened with impeachment, Robert Mugabe has resigned as the President of Zimbabwe.
    How many cheers does this act deserve? Two? Three?
    Some readers may notice my allusion to E.M. Forster's _Two Cheers for Democracy_.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cheers_for_Democracy