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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    13 Nov '18 19:33
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/ocasio-cortez-claims-yorkers-outraged-135522664.html

    Now she is trying to push Amazon out of New York. She says she does not want them there because Amazon is not paying enough taxes.

    Cortez says that the infrastructure is crumbling in New York, so apparently the DEMOCRATS who run New York are not doing their job. Shocking.

    Additionally, she would rather the infrastructure crumble without jobs added to Amazon along with the taxes they would pay.

    I'm sure some other state is licking their chops to snag Amazon for their local economies.
  2. Joined
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    13 Nov '18 20:20
    @whodey

    Perhaps this thread illustrates the great divide between the two parties.

    Trump helped rebuild New York after obtaining massive tax breaks.

    Where would they have been without that?
  3. Behind the scenes
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    14 Nov '18 08:031 edit
    @whodey said
    @whodey

    Perhaps this thread illustrates the great divide between the two parties.

    Trump helped rebuild New York after obtaining massive tax breaks.

    Where would they have been without that?
    Trump helped rebuild New York after obtaining massive tax breaks.



    If you'd bother to check the public records Whodey, you'd find Donald J Trump was just one of dozens of real estate developers that built commercial and residential buildings in New York and the surrounding area. Many of his competitors managed to turn a profit WITHOUT massive tax breaks. This isn't something I'd brag about if I were you.
    🙄
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    14 Nov '18 09:19
    @whodey said
    @whodey

    Perhaps this thread illustrates the great divide between the two parties.

    Trump helped rebuild New York after obtaining massive tax breaks.

    Where would they have been without that?
    "Helped rebuild New York"

    When?
  5. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 11:072 edits
    @mchill said
    Trump helped rebuild New York after obtaining massive tax breaks.



    If you'd bother to check the public records Whodey, you'd find Donald J Trump was just one of dozens of real estate developers that built commercial and residential buildings in New York and the surrounding area. Many of his competitors managed to turn a profit WITHOUT massive tax breaks. This isn't something I'd brag about if I were you.
    🙄
    I watched a documentary on Trump that was not all that flattering to Trump. In fact, at the end of the documentary it was evident that they were anti-Trump.

    But at least in the film they acknowledged the contributions to revitalizing the city Trump played which were significant. Naturally, NPC posters like you will not acknowledge any good coming from the Orange Man.

    What is worse is, you fail to acknowledge that the city of New York would be better off with huge tax breaks to Amazon rather than they go to another city. This is key in understanding the disconnect Left wingers have on the reality of economics.
  6. SubscriberPonderable
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    14 Nov '18 11:27
    @whodey said
    I watched a documentary on Trump that was not all that flattering to Trump. In fact, at the end of the documentary it was evident that they were anti-Trump.

    But at least in the film they acknowledged the contributions to revitalizing the city Trump played which were significant. Naturally, NPC posters like you will not acknowledge any good coming from the Orange Man.

    ...[text shortened]... er city. This is key in understanding the disconnect Left wingers have on the reality of economics.
    In fact if NO Companie would get tax breaks the ground would be Level. Not if the big company outplays states...

    In fact this is redistributing wealth from bottom to top. Small companies and workers can't evade the tax. And this is used by the big Players also, which is enough to make any fair minded Person blush.
  7. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 11:45
    @whodey

    Imagine how good it would be for the local economy if they had Amazon...and Amazon paid its taxes...and Amazon paid its staff a decent wage!!!!
  8. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 13:02
    @stellspalfie said
    @whodey

    Imagine how good it would be for the local economy if they had Amazon...and Amazon paid its taxes...and Amazon paid its staff a decent wage!!!!
    why dont you build your own company and do that?
  9. Standard membersh76
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    14 Nov '18 14:082 edits
    @stellspalfie said
    @whodey

    Imagine how good it would be for the local economy if they had Amazon...and Amazon paid its taxes...and Amazon paid its staff a decent wage!!!!
    Amazon does pay it's employees competitive salaries.

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Amazon-New-York-City-Salaries-EI_IE6036.0,6_IL.7,20_IM615.htm

    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-do-you-make-working-at-amazon-2015-5#senior-business-development-manager-200259-5

    Yes, Amazon got some tax breaks thrown into its deal with NYC, but "is expected to create at least 25,000 high-paying jobs and generate $27.5 billion in tax revenue for the city and state over 25 years." That's over 20 times the maximum value of its tax breaks.

    https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city/nys-amazon-deal-what-it-holds-queens-company

    I don't think Cortez has more than an extremely glib understanding of what she's talking about. She's just spitting out the talking points she's been programmed to spit out.

    Her tweet about the crumbling subways is a classic false dichotomy.

    I don't think she'd oppose Amazon coming to NYC if someone sat down with her for 10 minutes and explained to her the basics of what happens in real life.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 Nov '18 14:551 edit
    @sh76 said
    Amazon does pay it's employees competitive salaries.

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Amazon-New-York-City-Salaries-EI_IE6036.0,6_IL.7,20_IM615.htm

    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-do-you-make-working-at-amazon-2015-5#senior-business-development-manager-200259-5

    Yes, Amazon got some tax breaks thrown into its deal with NYC, but "is expected to create at least 25 ...[text shortened]... meone sat down with her for 10 minutes and explained to her the basics of what happens in real life.
    BS. This type of corporate welfare giveaway should be a felony.

    Amazon has plenty of funds to build its own HQs and has no need of public money. Essentially, they invited bribes by politicians to do something they intended to do anyway.

    Like most of these scams, it's highly unlikely that its economic benefit will be anywhere near what the corporate fat cats and their political allies now claim and externalities like the effect on rents, traffic, etc. etc. etc. have either been completely ignored or given short shrift.

    Cortez is right; New York shouldn't be treating a huge corporation more favorably than a mom and pop convenience store - if anything Amazon should be paying more taxes because of the principle of progressive taxation not less because it insisted on it.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    14 Nov '18 15:04
    @sh76 said
    Amazon does pay it's employees competitive salaries.

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Amazon-New-York-City-Salaries-EI_IE6036.0,6_IL.7,20_IM615.htm

    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-do-you-make-working-at-amazon-2015-5#senior-business-development-manager-200259-5

    Yes, Amazon got some tax breaks thrown into its deal with NYC, but "is expected to create at least 25 ...[text shortened]... meone sat down with her for 10 minutes and explained to her the basics of what happens in real life.
    Maybe you could sit this guy down for ten minutes:

    “The city seems to think — and the state seems to think — that we’re still in the 1970s, where our big problem is that large employers are fleeing the city and we need to maintain some kind of tax base at any cost,” says Nicole Gelinas, a senior fellow at the conservative Manhattan Institute, where she focuses on urban economics and finance.* “Rather than chase down every last job, like it’s some kind of jobs crisis, we should be really looking at the real crisis, which is infrastructure: collecting all of the taxes we have a right to from these companies and using that to build infrastructure.”

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/11/why-new-york-is-paying-amazon-usd3-billion.html

    There are already 4.5 million jobs in NYC; adding 25,000 isn't some big deal plus:

    And I need to note, the subsidy package Amazon has been promised is not $1.5 billion, even though that’s a number a lot of people are throwing around. It’s closer to $3 billion — $1.7 billion from the state and a further $1.3 billion from the city.

    That amounts to over $100,000 per job, paid over a period of more than ten years. Since each job will pay about $150,000 a year, you can think of the subsidy package as roughly equivalent to foregoing nearly all the personal income tax that would be collected on Amazon workers’ salaries over the subsidy period — an expensive proposition.
  12. Standard membersh76
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    14 Nov '18 15:14
    @no1marauder said
    Maybe you could sit this guy down for ten minutes:

    “The city seems to think — and the state seems to think — that we’re still in the 1970s, where our big problem is that large employers are fleeing the city and we need to maintain some kind of tax base at any cost,” says Nicole Gelinas, a senior fellow at the conservative Manhattan Institute, where she focuses on urban ...[text shortened]... uld be collected on Amazon workers’ salaries over the subsidy period[/b] — an expensive proposition.
    === There are already 4.5 million jobs in NYC; adding 25,000 isn't some big deal ===

    The question isn't weather it's a big deal in a vacuum relative to the entire employment in the city, but whether it's better for the city than it not happening.

    According to the article I cited earlier, it would generate $27.5B in revenue for the city over the next 25 years. Even if that's not 20 times the subsidy, it's still 10 times the subsidy.

    The city is in a better position to fix the subway system in the long run with Amazon here, not a worse one.

    Anyway, just because employment is high now doesn't mean it will always be so. Having Amazon headquarters in the City is a nice little hedge against the next employment downturn.
  13. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 17:46
    @no1marauder said
    BS. This type of corporate welfare giveaway should be a felony.

    Amazon has plenty of funds to build its own HQs and has no need of public money. Essentially, they invited bribes by politicians to do something they intended to do anyway.

    Like most of these scams, it's highly unlikely that its economic benefit will be anywhere near what the corporate fat cats and the ...[text shortened]... ying more taxes because of the principle of progressive taxation not less because it insisted on it.
    So for the record, New York should tell Amazon to get lost, right?
  14. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 17:48
    @sh76 said
    === There are already 4.5 million jobs in NYC; adding 25,000 isn't some big deal ===

    The question isn't weather it's a big deal in a vacuum relative to the entire employment in the city, but whether it's better for the city than it not happening.

    According to the article I cited earlier, it would generate $27.5B in revenue for the city over the next 25 years. Even if that' ...[text shortened]... Having Amazon headquarters in the City is a nice little hedge against the next employment downturn.
    You are trying to reason with people who voted for Crazy Eyes Cortez, the same woman that said that the low unemployment level is due to people having to work two jobs to make ends meet.

    You do realize this, right?

    Hilarious
  15. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 19:19
    @st
    Imagine how good it would be for the local economy if they had Amazon...and Amazon paid its taxes...and Amazon paid its staff a decent wage!!!!
    That exemplifies whodoo's "...disconnect Left wingers have on the reality of economics."

    The reality is that big businesses can set communities against one another in a race to the bottom for the minimum possible cost of setting up shop. It's not personal, it's just good business ethics. At least the economy does not rest again on the backs of the enslaved.

    Yet.
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