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Debates Forum

  1. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Sep '18 09:48
    What a statement for Europeans -- the Dalai Lama, head of Tibetan Buddhism, a practitioner and advocate for nonviolence and for peace on a global scale, personal friend of peace figures like Archbishop Desmond Tutu, has said that Europe belongs to Europeans, and that the refugees should learn skills to go home and rebuild their nations:

    Stockholm -
    The Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, said Wednesday that "Europe belongs to the Europeans" and that refugees should return to their native countries to rebuild them.

    Speaking at a conference in Sweden's third-largest city of Malmo, home to a large immigrant population, the Dalai Lama -- who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989 -- said Europe was "morally responsible" for helping "a refugee really facing danger against their life".

    "Receive them, help them, educate them... but ultimately they should develop their own country," said the 83-year-old Tibetan who fled the capital Lhasa in fear of his life after China poured troops into the region to crush an uprising.

    "I think Europe belongs to the Europeans," he said, adding they should make clear to refugees that "they ultimately should rebuild their own country".


    http://m.digitaljournal.com/news/world/dalai-lama-says-europe-belongs-to-europeans/article/531834
  2. Joined
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    13 Sep '18 10:15
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    What a statement for Europeans -- the Dalai Lama, head of Tibetan Buddhism, a practitioner and advocate for nonviolence and for peace on a global scale, personal friend of peace figures like Archbishop Desmond Tutu, has said that Europe belongs to Europeans, and that the refugees should learn skills to go home and rebuild their nations:

    [quote]Stockho ...[text shortened]... ttp://m.digitaljournal.com/news/world/dalai-lama-says-europe-belongs-to-europeans/article/531834
    I wonder what he means exactly when he uses the word 'European'?
  3. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    13 Sep '18 11:02
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    What a statement for Europeans -- the Dalai Lama, head of Tibetan Buddhism,
    His statements are more important to Tibetan Buddhists than Europeans - don't you think?

    He represents less than 4 million people ... about a million less than Palestine.
    Would you post about Abu Mazen's opinion on Europe?
  4. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Sep '18 11:20
    Originally posted by @stellspalfie
    I wonder what he means exactly when he uses the word 'European'?
    I believe he means indigenous Europeans -- that is to say, white European people.

    Of course, I think he'd also include the people who were born in Europe and have grown up there as well, and who are European in culture, heart, and deed, but I do not think that he would mean a second gen immigrant who isn't European in character, but just part of the uprooting of Europe from its traditional identity.

    What do you think he meant?
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Sep '18 11:22
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    His statements are more important to Tibetan Buddhists than Europeans - don't you think?

    He represents less than 4 million people ... about a million less than Palestine.
    Would you post about Abu Mazen's opinion on Europe?
    One of the unique things about H. H. Dalai Lama: He is a religious figure of great importance in addition to being the spiritual leader of Tibet.

    He doesn't represent just four million Tibetans, but he also represents a lot of Tibetan Buddhists and a lot of Buddhists in general.

    You know, he also is no longer the Head of State of Tibet anymore, either. he gave that up because he favors democratic principles! Quite a big deal, really.
  6. Joined
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    13 Sep '18 11:27
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    I believe he means indigenous Europeans -- that is to say, white European people.

    Of course, I think he'd also include the people who were born in Europe and have grown up there as well, and who are European in culture, heart, and deed, but I do not think that he would mean a second gen immigrant who isn't European in character, but just part of the uprooting of Europe from its traditional identity.

    What do you think he meant?
    I don't know what he meant.

    I don't know what you mean when you say 'European culture, heart and deed' and 'Europe's traditional identity'. What do those things mean to you
  7. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Sep '18 11:40
    Originally posted by @stellspalfie
    I don't know what he meant.

    I don't know what you mean when you say 'European culture, heart and deed' and 'Europe's traditional identity'. What do those things mean to you
    I'd say that a lot of European culture is a sort of "Flavvianism", and by this I mean a combination of the "Roman" with local elements.

    That is to say, to be profoundly influenced by the legacy of the Greek & Roman civilizations, their concepts of justice, wisdom, etc., their idealism, legalism, and their sense of "heroicism,' and the Christian enfusement that came with it, and then to bring it together with the local flavors.

    Local flavors being Nordic, Slavic, Visigothic, etc. influences.

    So, of course, being European is significantly broad, but there are over arching themes that we can see.

    The fact that some of these themes can be similar to themes in other civilizations and societies and cultures, as well, does not mean that they are invalid -- for an identity does not mean that every single aspect of it must be fiercely independent from everything else, and to not be replicated anywhere else. If that was the measure of what an identity is, it would be impossible for any normal man to even have something that approaches the idea of an identity.

    So, yeah, there are different European identities, and a collective concept of what is 'European', somtimes embracing the distinct threads & similarities through European peoples.

    What do you think?
  8. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    13 Sep '18 11:59
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    One of the unique things about H. H. Dalai Lama: He is a religious figure of great importance in addition to being the spiritual leader of Tibet.

    He doesn't represent just four million Tibetans, but he also represents a lot of Tibetan Buddhists and a lot of Buddhists in general.

    You know, he also is no longer the Head of State of Tibet anymore, either. he gave that up because he favors democratic principles! Quite a big deal, really.
    How many people does he represent then ... and what is the significance to Europe?
  9. Joined
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    13 Sep '18 12:18
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    I'd say that a lot of European culture is a sort of "Flavvianism", and by this I mean a combination of the "Roman" with local elements.

    That is to say, to be profoundly influenced by the legacy of the Greek & Roman civilizations, their concepts of justice, wisdom, etc., their idealism, legalism, and their sense of "heroicism,' and the Christian enfu ...[text shortened]... es embracing the distinct threads & similarities through European peoples.

    What do you think?
    I don't think its possible to identify a starting point of European culture, the Romans were influenced by the Greeks and many others, the Greeks by the Persians and many others. The influences existed long before the borders we have now.
    I guess Im saying I don't think you can simply draw a line around Europe and say that there a European Identity. I think you would need a heat map to define 'cultural similarities' and you would need lots of different heat maps to show the different ways 'culture' can be defined.
  10. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Sep '18 12:32
    Originally posted by @stellspalfie
    I don't think its possible to identify a starting point of European culture, the Romans were influenced by the Greeks and many others, the Greeks by the Persians and many others. The influences existed long before the borders we have now.
    I guess Im saying I don't think you can simply draw a line around Europe and say that there a European Identity. ...[text shortened]... you would need lots of different heat maps to show the different ways 'culture' can be defined.
    Sure, obviously people are influenced, and obviously there are origin points, but it is clear that the Persian and Indian and Chinese societies are different from that of Europe, and that they have different historic basis.

    It is not dirty to have similarities and influences from abroad.

    It is hard to imagine Korea without some Buddhist influence, which, of course, originates in India, but it is a distinctly Koreanized version of Buddhism.

    Something can come from somewhere else... and still be an intimate part of that local identity, and be even quite different than the "original" version. Just look at the different flavors of Christianity.

    I see your concern, though.
  11. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    13 Sep '18 12:36
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    How many people does he represent then ... and what is the significance to Europe?
    Oh, geez, I'd hardly think there is any way to measure that. There are tens of millions of people who probably have a close affinity to Tibetan Buddhism specifically, and hundreds of millions that, being Buddhists, have at least a passing interest in the Dalai Lama, and may even look to him as a wise man and teacher in spite of them being of a different tradition.

    The number of people reading his books has to be very high as well. He has also published a great deal of them.

    ... What's his significance to Europe? Well, his statement is extremely poignant and comes from soneone that is often a darling of the left for his pacifism and eastern mystical ways!

    I think you're being a tish bit obtuse about this, Wolfgang.
  12. Joined
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    13 Sep '18 13:03
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    Sure, obviously people are influenced, and obviously there are origin points, but it is clear that the Persian and Indian and Chinese societies are different from that of Europe, and that they have different historic basis.

    It is not dirty to have similarities and influences from abroad.

    It is hard to imagine Korea without some Buddhist influence ...[text shortened]... al" version. Just look at the different flavors of Christianity.

    I see your concern, though.
    In what way do they have 'different historic basis' History has shown that Persia, Mongolian, Roman, Greek, Carthaginian, Saxon and so on cultures have all influenced the countries around them then we have all been effected by their histories, we all to one degree or another share the same historic basis.
  13. Subscribermoonbus
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    13 Sep '18 13:49
    I wonder why Syrian refugees don’t go to Iran. It’s a short land journey, instead of a long, dangerous sea journey. Iran is a Muslim country with long historic ties to Syria.
  14. Germany
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    13 Sep '18 14:23
    Originally posted by @moonbus
    I wonder why Syrian refugees don’t go to Iran. It’s a short land journey, instead of a long, dangerous sea journey. Iran is a Muslim country with long historic ties to Syria.
    The vast majority of refugees from the Syrian civil war fled to surrounding countries, particularly Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey.
  15. Subscriberkmax87
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    13 Sep '18 15:39
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    What a statement for Europeans -- the Dalai Lama, head of Tibetan Buddhism, a practitioner and advocate for nonviolence and for peace on a global scale, personal friend of peace figures like Archbishop Desmond Tutu, has said that Europe belongs to Europeans, and that the refugees should learn skills to go home and rebuild their nations:

    [quote]Stockho ...[text shortened]... ttp://m.digitaljournal.com/news/world/dalai-lama-says-europe-belongs-to-europeans/article/531834
    The Dalai Lama wants to try a bit of separate development hey? Well it really worked for old Hendrick VW, didn't it?
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