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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    18 Nov '12 13:27
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323894704578115440209134854.html

    Things have reversed since the sixties. Good thing or bad?
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    18 Nov '12 14:05 / 1 edit
    I stopped reading the article after the bit about the university not allowing the muslim cartoon that offended the muslim world. Why shouldn't they be allowed to block a cartoon that caused riots and death in other parts of the world?

    What also bugs me about this article, is when they mention t-shirts with quotes from F. Scott Fitzgerald and "certain" passages from the Quran not being allowed; but they fail to mention what those quotes were. Now, I'm not familiar enough with Fitzgerald to know if he has any potentially offending quotes, but I do know the Quaran does; the fact that this article won't make clear which certain quotes weren't allowed by Yale is terrible and irresponsible reporting. That ommision is almost like they want you to conclude they're against muslims in general.

    I'm sure Yale would also ban T-shirts with quotes form the Bible advocating the stoning of gays as well; but I'm sure this article would just report it as "students blocked from expressing faith!"

    As far as the sixties, I think we've progressed significantly since then, not reversed. You can't hose down black people for marching peacefully in the streets, a MUCH worse form of blocking free speech.
  3. 18 Nov '12 15:28
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323894704578115440209134854.html

    Things have reversed since the sixties. Good thing or bad?
    Are you familiar with the NDAA? Where is the protest at the university level?

    As lawmakers pass regulations and laws at a dizzying pace, our freedoms wane. No one seems to much care anymore.
  4. 18 Nov '12 15:48
    Banning hate speech on college campuses that is rooted in bigotry is a good thing.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    18 Nov '12 15:52
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Banning hate speech on college campuses that is rooted in bigotry is a good thing.
    The basic problem with that is that one man's hate speech is another man's honest and valuable contribution to the marketplace of ideas. I happen to think that some of the anti-Israel demonstrations you see on campuses amount to hate speech, but I don't think they should be banned.

    Private campuses can do what they want, but for me the standard should be whether the speech incites or encourages violence.
  6. 18 Nov '12 16:02
    Originally posted by sh76
    The basic problem with that is that one man's hate speech is another man's honest and valuable contribution to the marketplace of ideas. I happen to think that some of the anti-Israel demonstrations you see on campuses amount to hate speech, but I don't think they should be banned.

    Private campuses can do what they want, but for me the standard should be whether the speech incites or encourages violence.
    I see free speech in the same light I see other issues, like Capitalism.

    Capitalism and free speech are both good, but also should not be absolute and unregulated.

    Should somebody be allowed to wear a T-shirt that says "I HATE N****RS" in a public school?
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    18 Nov '12 16:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    I see free speech in the same light I see other issues, like Capitalism.

    Capitalism and free speech are both good, but also should not be absolute and unregulated.

    Should somebody be allowed to wear a T-shirt that says "I HATE N****RS" in a public school?
    Do you mean high school or college? If it's a high school (or especially a primary school) then no. There the administration has a responsibility to create an atmosphere that is conducive to learning.

    The people on college campuses are adults. I don't know if the government should be limiting even offensive messages unless they incite violence. You example is a borderline case since it could be argued that the t-shirt constitutes fighting words.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplinsky_v._New_Hampshire
  8. 18 Nov '12 16:18
    Originally posted by sh76
    Do you mean high school or college? If it's a high school (or especially a primary school) then no. There the administration has a responsibility to create an atmosphere that is conducive to learning.

    The people on college campuses are adults. I don't know if the government should be limiting even offensive messages unless they incite violence. You example i ...[text shortened]... -shirt constitutes fighting words.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplinsky_v._New_Hampshire
    I mean both. I agree with you about maintaining an atmosphere that is conducive to learning, but I also extend that to colleges. College students fresh out of high school might be adults by legal definition, but really they're not.
  9. 18 Nov '12 16:25
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Should somebody be allowed to wear a T-shirt that says "I HATE N****RS" in a public school?
    College/university yes, high school no.
  10. 18 Nov '12 17:24
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    I mean both. I agree with you about maintaining an atmosphere that is conducive to learning, but I also extend that to colleges. College students fresh out of high school might be adults by legal definition, but really they're not.
    If somebody were to wear a shirt like that, the violence they incited would likely be done on them. If they aren't adults, what the hell are they doing living away from home? 18 is old enough to fight and die, it's old enough to be able to decide what slogan is on your t-shirt.
  11. 18 Nov '12 17:28
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Banning hate speech on college campuses that is rooted in bigotry is a good thing.
    Banning any speech is a bad thing. People have to live together and that includes people who say insensitive and hurtful things. How long should we make sure that kids don't have to deal with this? Wouldn't it be better to give them the opportunity to learn about these things and how to deal with them while they are still young enough it might have an impact? Otherwise they will end up like vivify, thinking that everyone who disagrees with them is too stupid to cast a vote for themselves.
  12. 18 Nov '12 17:45
    Originally posted by whodey
    Are you familiar with the NDAA? Where is the protest at the university level?

    As lawmakers pass regulations and laws at a dizzying pace, our freedoms wane. No one seems to much care anymore.
    Where is the protest anywhere at any level?
  13. Standard member vivify
    rain
    18 Nov '12 18:41 / 1 edit
    Ooh, I can still feel dryhumps pain from having his misquotes and logically flawed arguments so clearly and unarguably destroyed, that he ran away from the thread.

    Passive agression: one of the symptoms of butthurt.
  14. 18 Nov '12 21:03
    Originally posted by vivify
    I stopped reading the article after the bit about the university not allowing the muslim cartoon that offended the muslim world. Why shouldn't they be allowed to block a cartoon that caused riots and death in other parts of the world?

    The cartoon didn't cause riots, a totally screwed up worldview that doesn't allow people to express themselves is what caused the riots. Freedom can't exist under your worldview. You are the enemy.
  15. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    18 Nov '12 21:18
    An "I hate niggers" T-shirt at a university is fine. If you ban that, you have to ban "No fat chicks" T-shirts -- and lord, where would that leave us!? The wearer of the former should not expect a police escort, however, and the wearer of the latter should not expect to get laid. Stupid things on stupid shirts are a time-honored tradition. If, in 2004, I wanted to wear a "President Bush is a puppy-fisting ass goblin" T-shirt in class, that should be my right.