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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    08 Nov '11 06:23
    http://yeson26.net/

    Do you see anything wrong with requiring a 14-year old rape victim to bear a child against her will?

    If polls are accurate, Mississippi is set to answer that question today with a resounding "no."
  2. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    08 Nov '11 06:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://yeson26.net/

    Do you see anything wrong with requiring a 14-year old rape victim to bear a child against her will?

    If polls are accurate, Mississippi is set to answer that question today with a resounding "no."
    Apparently the measure will not mean a banning of birth-control pills. So a woman could get pregnant, and use birth-control pills to terminate the pregnancy. Then she would, I guess, be charged with first-degree murder. Or suppose a woman from another state has an IUD and has sex with some guy in Mississippi. Could she be examined and investigated for manslaughter? And if a woman were to exercise too vigorously, or have a glass of wine, I guess she could be brought up on charges of child-endangerment or abuse. Anyway, this will be struck down by the Supreme Court (who would have an absolute field-day during oral argument with the complications of this law...).
  3. 08 Nov '11 18:39 / 1 edit
    The definition of "personhood" continues to expand. Is there such a thing as a corporate embryo?

    Will this put an end to fertility treatments? The morning after pill?

    When to sperm and eggs earn their rights?!
  4. 08 Nov '11 18:44
    Will this put an end to fertility treatments? The morning after pill?
    My understanding is that it would for both but perhaps I should not believe everything I read on cnn.com. Is your understanding different?
  5. 08 Nov '11 19:05
    Originally posted by quackquack
    My understanding is that it would for both but perhaps I should not believe everything I read on cnn.com. Is your understanding different?
    I haven't followed the story, but what happens to the thousands of embryos in storage right now in fertility clinics? If they're people, aren't they being falsely incarcerated? Do they qualify for Social Security? Should they be given names? Obviously they don't need birth certificates since they haven't been born yet.

    Are they "naturalized" so that they qualify to run for President?
  6. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    08 Nov '11 19:16
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    I haven't followed the story, but what happens to the thousands of embryos in storage right now in fertility clinics? If they're people, aren't they being falsely incarcerated? Do they qualify for Social Security? Should they be given names? Obviously they don't need birth certificates since they haven't been born yet.

    Are they "naturalized" so that they qualify to run for President?
    The criteria is 35 yrs. of age, not 35 yrs. after birth, so I guess we could have an embryonic president if we keep them on ice long enough. It would probably run (roll?) as a Republican.
  7. 08 Nov '11 19:34
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://yeson26.net/

    Do you see anything wrong with requiring a 14-year old rape victim to bear a child against her will?

    If polls are accurate, Mississippi is set to answer that question today with a resounding "no."
    How many women who are raped become pregnant? I'm just curious. You trot out the worst case scenarios to defend a practice that is morally reprehensible all by itself. Do I think abortions should be illegal, no. Do I think they are wrong, absolutely. I'm guessing the vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest or the health of the mother.
  8. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    08 Nov '11 19:44
    Originally posted by dryhump
    How many women who are raped become pregnant? I'm just curious. You trot out the worst case scenarios to defend a practice that is morally reprehensible all by itself. Do I think abortions should be illegal, no. Do I think they are wrong, absolutely. I'm guessing the vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest or the health of the mother.
    Then it shouldn't be that big of deal to allow exclusions for such cases, should it? The Mississippi bill makes it plain; fetuses are not to be "executed" just because the mother was raped, and the right to life of fetuses is of equivalent importance as the right to life of the mother, so it's only when the life of the mother is in jeopardy (not merely her health) that, it is claimed, her right to self-defense allows for an abortion. Pretty draconian, pretty ridiculous.
  9. 08 Nov '11 19:46
    Originally posted by dryhump
    How many women who are raped become pregnant? I'm just curious. You trot out the worst case scenarios to defend a practice that is morally reprehensible all by itself. Do I think abortions should be illegal, no. Do I think they are wrong, absolutely. I'm guessing the vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest or the health of the mother.
    Most abortions are because the use of contraceptives is taboo, especially among teenagers, and because sex ed is very poor. That is why states such as Texas have extremely high abortion rates and teenage pregnancy rates. The abortion rate would drop significantly if the federal government would cover the cost of the Pill.
  10. 08 Nov '11 19:48
    Originally posted by bbarr
    Then it shouldn't be that big of deal to allow exclusions for such cases, should it? The Mississippi bill makes it plain; fetuses are not to be "executed" just because the mother was raped, and the right to life of fetuses is of equivalent importance as the right to life of the mother, so it's only when the life of the mother is in jeopardy (not merely her he ...[text shortened]... imed, her right to self-defense allows for an abortion. Pretty draconian, pretty ridiculous.
    Ease up, dude. I already said I thought they should be legal. I can think something is wrong without thinking it has to be illegal, can't I?
  11. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    08 Nov '11 19:50
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Ease up, dude. I already said I thought they should be legal. I can think something is wrong without thinking it has to be illegal, can't I?
    Yes, yes, of course. Sorry.
  12. 08 Nov '11 19:52
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    http://yeson26.net/

    Do you see anything wrong with requiring a 14-year old rape victim to bear a child against her will?

    If polls are accurate, Mississippi is set to answer that question today with a resounding "no."
    Kill the rapist.

    I fail to see why the innocent gets killed while the guilty gets to live. It just doesn't make sense.
  13. 08 Nov '11 19:55
    Originally posted by dryhump
    How many women who are raped become pregnant? I'm just curious. You trot out the worst case scenarios to defend a practice that is morally reprehensible all by itself. Do I think abortions should be illegal, no. Do I think they are wrong, absolutely. I'm guessing the vast majority of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest or the health of the mother.
    The problem is that they are currently trying to implement laws that will prevent even those cases such as rape, incest or health of the mother.

    You are right that the number of abortions done for those reasons are a small minority of the legal abortions done, but that doesn't mean that we should somehow ignore them.

    This kind of law can have wide implications such as with ectopic pregnancies. Treating this condition could be interpreted as being tantamount to murder.

    Also, 10-25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage - couldn't this kind of law lead to investigation to make sure the mother didn't do something to try and cause that? ( http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/georgia-anti-abortion-bill-would-require-investigations-of-miscarriages/ ) I suspect that you would be against this, but this is the kind of think that this kind of a law can justify.


    I don't know of anyone sane at all who thinks having more abortions is a good thing - even the most adamant pro-choice activist wouldn't say that an increase in abortions is a good thing. The best way to prevent abortions is to prevent the primary prerequisite to an abortion: unwanted pregnancies.
  14. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    08 Nov '11 20:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Kill the rapist.

    I fail to see why the innocent gets killed while the guilty gets to live. It just doesn't make sense.
    If it makes you feel any better, don't think of it as an innocent getting killed, but as an innocent being justly denied the use of another's body who did not consent to such use. When technology is such that fetuses can be extracted without killing them, and allowed to grow in a lab, then abortion will be unnecessary. Raped women will be allowed to detach from fetuses without their resultant death.
  15. 08 Nov '11 20:14
    Originally posted by bbarr
    If it makes you feel any better, don't think of it as an innocent getting killed, but as an innocent being justly denied the use of another's body who did not consent to such use. When technology is such that fetuses can be extracted without killing them, and allowed to grow in a lab, then abortion will be unnecessary. Raped women will be allowed to detach from fetuses without their resultant death.
    Once again I ask, why is it that the rapist is not killed?