Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Behind the scenes
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    06 Jul '18 17:522 edits
    Face it Democrats, Hillary Clinton was a pretty sorry excuse for a candidate in 2016. Her use of super delegates to lock out Bernie Sanders, a shady Whitewater real estate deal, and her less than intelligent decision to use her personal email address to transmit official government information gave the GOP plenty of targets to attack. A better model for the Democrats would be that of a junior senator such as Obama was in 2008. Junior senators have enough government experience to be credible, and their short political careers and voting records allow for fewer points of attack by the opposition. JMHO - 2 very good choices for the Democrats would be New York's Kirsten Gillibrand and California's Kamala Harris. This model worked in 2008, and it can work again.

    Democrats: You can overcome Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression, but only if you make smarter choices next time.
  2. Joined
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    06 Jul '18 19:25
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Face it Democrats, Hillary Clinton was a pretty sorry excuse for a candidate in 2016. Her use of super delegates to lock out Bernie Sanders, a shady Whitewater real estate deal, and her less than intelligent decision to use her personal email address to transmit official government information gave the GOP plenty of targets to attack. A better model for the ...[text shortened]... Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression, but only if you make smarter choices next time.
    I think as a general rule candidates win presidential election because people like them and or their stance on issues. It makes more sense to look for that then to have someone with limited experience because you feel someone else may criticize them.
  3. Standard membervivify
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    06 Jul '18 19:33
    Who cares. Trump is winning in 2020.

    Everyone is used to Trump's pathological lying, immense stupidity, bigotry, corruption and childish outbursts. If Trump lies tomorrow about anything, it doesn't even make news anymore. If Trump says something racist, we'll forget about it by the next outrageous thing he does.

    The public becomes more and more desensitized to Trump with each passing week. His base loves him more and more; Republicans will not dare try to replace him with another candidate; therefore, he has the absolute full support of the party that controls all three branches of Congress (Trump will soon pick yet another SCOTUS judge).
  4. Germany
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    06 Jul '18 19:54
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Face it Democrats, Hillary Clinton was a pretty sorry excuse for a candidate in 2016. Her use of super delegates to lock out Bernie Sanders, a shady Whitewater real estate deal, and her less than intelligent decision to use her personal email address to transmit official government information gave the GOP plenty of targets to attack. A better model for the ...[text shortened]... Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression, but only if you make smarter choices next time.
    If Clinton would have been facing someone like Eisenhower, that criticism might make sense. In reality, however, she faced Donald Trump, and anyone who took longer than an attosecond to realize Clinton was an overwhelmingly superior candidate is a bit of a moron.
  5. SubscriberTom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
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    06 Jul '18 20:161 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Who cares. Trump is winning in 2020.

    Everyone is used to Trump's pathological lying, immense stupidity, bigotry, corruption and childish outbursts. If Trump lies tomorrow about anything, it doesn't even make news anymore. If Trump says something racist, we'll forget about it by the next outrageous thing he does.

    The public becomes more and more d ...[text shortened]... ty that controls all three branches of Congress (Trump will soon pick yet another SCOTUS judge).
    You are describing an effect similar to what Conservatives saw during the 8 years of Obama. There were so many outrageous executive orders, laws, and regulations passed and proposed during his presidency there was never enough time to fully debate real, live events. Conservatives likened it to the Democrats "stomping on the accelerator" and "doubling down" on a continual basis. Like the Democrats were in a hurry to go forward with everything they could before the clock ran out. Trump and company seem to be doing the same thing.
  6. Joined
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    06 Jul '18 22:01
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    If Clinton would have been facing someone like Eisenhower, that criticism might make sense. In reality, however, she faced Donald Drumpf, and anyone who took longer than an attosecond to realize Clinton was an overwhelmingly superior candidate is a bit of a moron.
    and that's exactly the kind of thinking that allowed trump to win.

    that clinton thought she was entitled to win. That it's obvious she is better than the other candidate because she doesn't say disgusting things. She didn't think she had to campaign. She didn't think she had to win votes.

    She told poor people that their lives are good enough and smugly announced she is the best they could do. And they disagreed. With her and with the rest of the democrats. They told her their lives aren't good enough and they first and foremost care about putting food on their children's table. That Obamacare isn't good enough and slightly improving it is not good enough.

    The democrats propped up Trump thinking he would be an easy opponent and hindered Sanders because it was Clinton's "turn" and that he wouldn't have played ball with their billionaire Wall Street donors.
  7. Germany
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    07 Jul '18 08:03
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    and that's exactly the kind of thinking that allowed trump to win.

    that clinton thought she was entitled to win. That it's obvious she is better than the other candidate because she doesn't say disgusting things. She didn't think she had to campaign. She didn't think she had to win votes.

    She told poor people that their lives are good enough and smu ...[text shortened]... linton's "turn" and that he wouldn't have played ball with their billionaire Wall Street donors.
    I'm not a campaign strategist, and obviously, calling Trump voters morons isn't a winning strategy. Still, they're morons, no two ways about it, and Trump won because there are enough of them to win.
  8. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
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    07 Jul '18 09:11
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Face it Democrats, Hillary Clinton was a pretty sorry excuse for a candidate in 2016. Her use of super delegates to lock out Bernie Sanders, a shady Whitewater real estate deal, and her less than intelligent decision to use her personal email address to transmit official government information gave the GOP plenty of targets to attack. A better model for the ...[text shortened]... Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression, but only if you make smarter choices next time.
    I like Cory Booker.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    07 Jul '18 09:40
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Face it Democrats, Hillary Clinton was a pretty sorry excuse for a candidate in 2016. Her use of super delegates to lock out Bernie Sanders, a shady Whitewater real estate deal, and her less than intelligent decision to use her personal email address to transmit official government information gave the GOP plenty of targets to attack. A better model for the ...[text shortened]... Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression, but only if you make smarter choices next time.
    I agree with this and think Gillibrand would be a particularly good choice. This is a good article about her from 2013: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/12/16/strong-vanilla
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    07 Jul '18 09:44
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    I like Cory Booker.
    Booker is too much of a Big Business hack for my taste. Some examples:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democrats-havent-learned-cory-booker-chooses-wall_us_5879119ee4b077a19d180d45

    https://newrepublic.com/minutes/139825/cory-booker-not-friend

    In some election cycles, he's gotten more campaign money from Wall Street bankers than any member of Congress: https://www.wnyc.org/story/booker-gets-more-wall-street-any-house-senate-member/

    Not really the fresh face the Dems need.
  11. SubscriberKingDavid403
    King David
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    07 Jul '18 10:441 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Who cares. Trump is winning in 2020.

    Everyone is used to Trump's pathological lying, immense stupidity, bigotry, corruption and childish outbursts. If Trump lies tomorrow about anything, it doesn't even make news anymore. If Trump says something racist, we'll forget about it by the next outrageous thing he does.

    The public becomes more and more d ...[text shortened]... ty that controls all three branches of Congress (Trump will soon pick yet another SCOTUS judge).
    I think you're wrong. Resistance to this POS and the GOP is growing every day now. Dems just better find a good candidate and find one soon.
  12. Germany
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    07 Jul '18 10:48
    Originally posted by @kingdavid403
    I think you're wrong. Resistance to this POS and the GOP is growing every day now. Dems just better find a good candidate and find them soon.
    One thing that has surprised me about this whole episode is how meekly Americans are reacting to the erosion of their society. I mean, we have a guy here literally setting up concentration camps, and it isn't even making a dent in his popularity! Even people who oppose him are like: "well, let's wait for the investigation to end..." Truly baffling.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    07 Jul '18 10:541 edit
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    One thing that has surprised me about this whole episode is how meekly Americans are reacting to the erosion of their society. I mean, we have a guy here literally setting up concentration camps, and it isn't even making a dent in his popularity! Even people who oppose him are like: "well, let's wait for the investigation to end..." Truly baffling.
    His "popularity" is the lowest of any President at this point in his term since modern polling has been available. His net approval is below -10%; no President since Truman has been worse than -2.1%. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Jul '18 11:081 edit
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    and that's exactly the kind of thinking that allowed trump to win.

    that clinton thought she was entitled to win. That it's obvious she is better than the other candidate because she doesn't say disgusting things. She didn't think she had to campaign. She didn't think she had to win votes.

    She told poor people that their lives are good enough and smu ...[text shortened]... linton's "turn" and that he wouldn't have played ball with their billionaire Wall Street donors.
    And Sanders fanatics like you are still butt-hurt over losing to Clinton.

    So much so that they helped Trump win by not voting at all, childishly "holding their breath" because their guy didn't win the primary. Thanks for nothing. I voted for Sanders in the primary, but after he lost, I still voted for the party platform that represented the best chance of moving his ideals forward, not reverse them or set them back a hundred years.

    If you think that anyone who voted for Trump was all pissed off because "Obamacare" wasn't "good enough", then you're completely out of touch with them. To them, "Obamacare" was "bad" only because "that horrible black man" had his name attached to it, and only because Fox News told them so. The poor in this country were just glad to have health insurance for the first time in, well, forever. They figured it would've gotten better, which it would have, if only fools didn't elect or help elect a Republican.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    07 Jul '18 11:45
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    One thing that has surprised me about this whole episode is how meekly Americans are reacting to the erosion of their society. I mean, we have a guy here literally setting up concentration camps, and it isn't even making a dent in his popularity! Even people who oppose him are like: "well, let's wait for the investigation to end..." Truly baffling.
    We'll see in November, although I'm not overly enthusiastic.

    The election-rigging machine that elected Trump the first time seems still in place, and democrat voters are sufficiently pissed off that we could see a turnaround in the House and Senate, as well as Governor's races, if only they aren't prepared to strip the right to vote from even more voters of color than they did last time. Hopefully, they'll go so overboard with it that maybe, just maybe, the true story will break this time. After all, it was nearly 7 million last time, and to be as effective this time, they may have to go as high as 20 million voters (maybe even more, to account for those not counted during the 2020 census) being stripped off the voter rolls, and that's a lot to cover up. Another possibility is that they'll just let this election go 'au naturel' and save up those kinds of numbers for the next pres election, in order to assure Trump gets his 8. At that point, even if they got busted, it might not matter. Half of America's rights, including the Bill of Rights and the right to vote, might not even exist after that.

    "The Fall of the American Empire", indeed. After all, the Third Reich only lasted 12 years, total. A lot can happen in 8.

    The sad fact is that, minus morally intact politicians, the only way America can come back from the brink of complete corruption is at the ballot box, and the Republicans, now the party in power, know it. And the window of opportunity to do anything at all about it is closing. How does a 7-2 Supreme Court grab you? How about a 'Fourth Reich'?
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