Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56296
    04 Nov '18 12:54
    I was just watching a comedian talk about Florida.
    Obviously, after Seinfeld and the ‘perpetual left indicator light’, Florida remains a great source of comedy (he was joking about old people and how they drive)...

    But this little topic is a gem.
    I suppose most Americans will disagree with me, but I think the right to vote should not be with held from people serving time.

    Let me explain: laws are put in place, generally, by society to protect society. And society is the manifestation of the average opinion of the people living in it.
    Say you’re locked up for smoking marijuana at a public bus stop.
    Society states: no sirree; big nono there son. And locks you in jail (or gaol for the traditionalists amongst you).
    But you or I may not agree with society on this issue. And we are free to try to change this law.
    But that’s equally so, or perhaps more so, for the person in prison.
    I feel he should have the right to voice his preferences in a vote.

    So, this puts me firmly in the ‘just because society deems you wrong, doesn’t make you absolutely wrong’ camp.

    Now, in Florida, when a prisoner is released, he still doesn’t have the right to vote.
    He has to wait 7 years to apply to have his civil right reinstated.
    And it’s up to the governor at that moment to say yah or nay.

    So, society has said you’re a bad boy and need punishing. You’ve served out the punishment, and then you still can’t participate fully in society. Isn’t that rather strange?

    Does anyone here agree with this law? If so, why?
    I can’t for the life of me comprehend why something like that exists.

    Oh, I can speculate, I’m sure it’s certain layers within society who are more represented in the goal group (or gaol group... just to finish the pun I started earlier... thank you, thank you, no need to applaud), but targetting a voter group in such a manner would be illegal (international treaties bar it, but I presume there national and State level laws about profiling and civil rights as well).
  2. Joined
    05 Nov '06
    Moves
    81331
    04 Nov '18 13:30
    @shavixmir said
    I was just watching a comedian talk about Florida.
    Obviously, after Seinfeld and the ‘perpetual left indicator light’, Florida remains a great source of comedy (he was joking about old people and how they drive)...

    But this little topic is a gem.
    I suppose most Americans will disagree with me, but I think the right to vote should not be with held from people serving ti ...[text shortened]... bar it, but I presume there national and State level laws about profiling and civil rights as well).
    a civilized society has laws, liberals somehow cant comprehend that.
  3. Subscriberbadradger
    Scallywag
    the pie shop
    Joined
    09 Sep '18
    Moves
    11724
    04 Nov '18 13:32
    @mott-the-hoople said
    a civilized society has laws, liberals somehow cant comprehend that.
    and the right wing know how to bend them
  4. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56296
    04 Nov '18 14:29
    @mott-the-hoople said
    a civilized society has laws, liberals somehow cant comprehend that.
    Blah blah.

    What’s your opinion on this Florida law?
    Do you think ex-criminals should be barred from voting?
  5. SubscriberWOLFE63
    Tra il dire e il far
    C'e di mezzo il mar!
    Joined
    06 Nov '15
    Moves
    22123
    04 Nov '18 14:361 edit
    @shavixmir said
    I was just watching a comedian talk about Florida.
    Obviously, after Seinfeld and the ‘perpetual left indicator light’, Florida remains a great source of comedy (he was joking about old people and how they drive)...

    But this little topic is a gem.
    I suppose most Americans will disagree with me, but I think the right to vote should not be with held from people serving ti ...[text shortened]... bar it, but I presume there national and State level laws about profiling and civil rights as well).
    I've made my home in Florida for over 30 years.
    The antiquated law you've referenced is absolute over-kill. Hopefully it will be remedied soon. (Beginning on Tuesday)

    The conservatives in this state are scrambling like dung beetles on a shytpile, as they continue trying to suppress minority voting.

    It's well passed time for a change.
  6. Behind the scenes
    Joined
    27 Jun '16
    Moves
    1407
    04 Nov '18 16:05
    @shavixmir said
    I was just watching a comedian talk about Florida.
    Obviously, after Seinfeld and the ‘perpetual left indicator light’, Florida remains a great source of comedy (he was joking about old people and how they drive)...

    But this little topic is a gem.
    I suppose most Americans will disagree with me, but I think the right to vote should not be with held from people serving ti ...[text shortened]... bar it, but I presume there national and State level laws about profiling and civil rights as well).
    targeting a voter group in such a manner would be illegal (international treaties bar it.

    This is true, but I think we both know why they do this here in the USA. This voter group you speak of grew up in the lower income bracket and tends to vote Liberal. It's just another form of voter suppression.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    04 Nov '18 16:241 edit
    @shavixmir said
    I was just watching a comedian talk about Florida.
    Obviously, after Seinfeld and the ‘perpetual left indicator light’, Florida remains a great source of comedy (he was joking about old people and how they drive)...

    But this little topic is a gem.
    I suppose most Americans will disagree with me, but I think the right to vote should not be with held from people serving ti ...[text shortened]... bar it, but I presume there national and State level laws about profiling and civil rights as well).
    Florida has a proposition on the ballot in November, Amendment 4, which would make Florida law in this area more like most States:

    Currently, Florida is one of only three states that don’t automatically restore such rights, requiring a lengthy process that involves individual appeals to the Florida Cabinet. There is currently a backlog of thousands of such applications, and about 1.6 million Floridians, largely African Americans, have been permanently barred from voting without clemency.

    https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-felon-voting-rights-poll-20180924-story.html

    The Amendment to the Florida Constitution needs 60% "Yes" and it might be close.https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-florida-felon-voting-amendment-4-polling-20181101-story.html
  8. Joined
    05 Nov '06
    Moves
    81331
    04 Nov '18 18:01
    @no1marauder said
    Florida has a proposition on the ballot in November, Amendment 4, which would make Florida law in this area more like most States:

    Currently, Florida is one of only three states that don’t automatically restore such rights, requiring a lengthy process that involves individual appeals to the Florida Cabinet. There is currently a backlog of thousands of such applications ...[text shortened]... ww.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-florida-felon-voting-amendment-4-polling-20181101-story.html
    vagrants and criminals...hell of a voter base!
  9. Joined
    05 Nov '06
    Moves
    81331
    04 Nov '18 18:09
    @no1marauder said
    Florida has a proposition on the ballot in November, Amendment 4, which would make Florida law in this area more like most States:

    Currently, Florida is one of only three states that don’t automatically restore such rights, requiring a lengthy process that involves individual appeals to the Florida Cabinet. There is currently a backlog of thousands of such applications ...[text shortened]... ww.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-florida-felon-voting-amendment-4-polling-20181101-story.html
    poor ole black man (eye roll)
  10. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52853
    04 Nov '18 18:25
    @mott-the-hoople said
    a civilized society has laws, liberals somehow cant comprehend that.
    Laws, sure, laws? Like the county clerk in Georgia putting only one voting booth up and that miles out of town?
  11. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56296
    04 Nov '18 18:45
    Well, since we’re talking about voting:

    https://youtu.be/YIuuHK3sL7o
  12. Joined
    05 Nov '06
    Moves
    81331
    04 Nov '18 22:04
    @sonhouse said
    Laws, sure, laws? Like the county clerk in Georgia putting only one voting booth up and that miles out of town?
    link, or you are just a bald face liar!
  13. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
    28 Dec '04
    Moves
    52853
    04 Nov '18 22:44
    @mott-the-hoople said
    link, or you are just a bald face liar!
    Not Georgia, but Dodge City Kansas: I gather you don't follow real news, nah, this would never hit Faux news:

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/politics/kansas-dodge-city-polling-site-lawsuit/index.html
  14. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    05 Nov '18 01:551 edit
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/america-minority-rule-voter-suppression-gerrymandering-supreme-court

    "Rigging the vote: how the American right is on the way to permanent minority rule
    Underhand Republican tactics – gerrymandering, voter suppression, more –
    underpin a vice-like grip on power."

    "Taken together, this is a powerful set of tools. Draw maps that let you win even
    when you lose. Use the resulting power to enact measures to suppress the vote
    of the other side further. Count on a minority rule president to undercount your
    opponents in the census, and a minority-rule Senate to confirm justices who will
    strike down any obstacles to the plan.

    With the deck this stacked, it isn’t enough to win. Wresting control back from the entrenched
    minority will take overwhelming victory. It may take, in other words, a genuine political revolution."

    A right-wing white American 'immigration reform' activist told me that his agenda includes:
    1) ending non-white immigration (while encouraging white immigration)
    2) making the USA 'more democratic' (like apartheid South Africa, which he admired)
    by restricting voting rights to white people, with possible exceptions of allowing
    non-white women in stable marriages with white men to vote too.
    3) eventually making the USA an almost all-white society, allowing a tiny minority
    of exceptionally gifted non-whites to stay if they accept having no political rights.

    Of course, he denied that he's racist at all because he did not advocate something
    like the genocide of all non-white people in the USA. He hopes that white nationalism
    is 'the wave of the future' in American politics and culture. He said that, as long as
    all white people stick together, they will be invincible and can crush every enemy.
  15. Seongnam, S. Korea
    Joined
    03 Jun '17
    Moves
    19349
    05 Nov '18 02:07
    I believe this is based off of the historic "... in good standing" caveats that we often placed on citizens and voting.

    I do not see an issue with it at all.

    Does it actually apply to people with a single low level marijuana possession conviction? I do not actually think so. I think this applies only to felons who have been put in jail.

    But I don't know.

    I am not a felon, and I have never been on speaking terms much with people who have been to jail. I think I have had a few conversations with a guy who did some years in prison because of some mutual interests that we had but I never asked the question, and he was very transparent about his bad past & enjoyed talking about it. He also didn't strike me as a guy who was overly invested in voting. But I digress....

    I do not really think the law has to be defended much.

    You can apply to have it reinstated after seven years, as it is, and I generally support any Governor who is liberal in reinstating it for reformed citizens.

    Fun question:

    Does this mean that theoretically Chelsea Manning could not vote for herself?
Back to Top