Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    12 Sep '16 12:081 edit
    In a recent speech, Hillary indicated that Trump supporters were deplorable racists and haters and irredeemable.

    How many agree?

    http://kbctv.co.ke/blog/2016/09/10/clinton-calls-half-of-trump-supporters-deplorables/
  2. Cape Town
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    12 Sep '16 12:271 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    In a recent speech, Hillary indicated that Trump supporters were deplorable racists and haters and irredeemable.

    How many agree?

    http://kbctv.co.ke/blog/2016/09/10/clinton-calls-half-of-trump-supporters-deplorables/
    I agree that many are deplorable racists and haters, I disagree that they are all irredeemable. I believe some may not be racists or haters but may have other issues. Kelly for example is voting for trump because he wishes to sabotage the government.

    And of course you are lying as usual - which makes you deplorable and I suspect you are irredeemable.
  3. Standard membersh76
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    12 Sep '16 12:301 edit
    She is completely out of touch (no surprise there).

    Hillary's comment implicitly applies to about 20% of her sought constituency.

    “To just be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables’. Unfortunately there are people like that, and he has lifted them up,” she said.

    ...

    Speaking at a fundraiser, she said they were “racist, sexist, xenophobic, Islamophobic – you name it”.



    The much maligned "47%" comment from Romney in 2012:

    "There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them."


    Which is worse? While 47% is obviously more than 20%, the substance of the comment was much more hurtful. I'd rather be called dependent on the government than deplorable.

    I'm generally a pretty optimistic person, but this election cycle makes me sick. I've stopped following the horse race numbers so closely, though I love political horse races. I've even stopped listening to the 538 podcasts, which I used to be addicted to like heroin (I sometimes use to refresh the page every couple of hours on Monday to see when it would come out). Either outcome is going to make me ill.
  4. Standard membersh76
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    12 Sep '16 12:31
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I agree that many are deplorable racists and haters, I disagree that they are all irredeemable. I believe some may not be racists or haters but may have other issues. Kelly for example is voting for trump because he wishes to sabotage the government.

    And of course you are lying as usual - which makes you deplorable and I suspect you are irredeemable.
    She didn't say "many." She said "half."
  5. Joined
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    12 Sep '16 13:054 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    She didn't say "many." She said "half."
    So 50% is not many?

    I guess another gotcha moment from twhity cuz whodey is a liar don't ya know LOL.

    Meanwhile, Hillary never lies no matter how it may conflict with the truth cuz she is just being misunderstood.

    I have to say, I've lost a lot of respect for those on this forum who have defended Hillary as not being a liar. Pitiful.
  6. Joined
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    12 Sep '16 13:07
    From what I hear, she at least did apologize for what she thought and said.

    I think it may be the first time I've ever heard her apologize.
  7. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    12 Sep '16 13:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    In a recent speech, Hillary indicated that Trump supporters were deplorable racists and haters and irredeemable.

    How many agree?

    http://kbctv.co.ke/blog/2016/09/10/clinton-calls-half-of-trump-supporters-deplorables/
    As if Hillary herself was not deplorable and irredeemable. She's a lame duck already.
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Sep '16 13:29
    Originally posted by sh76
    She is completely out of touch (no surprise there).

    Hillary's comment implicitly applies to about 20% of her sought constituency.

    [quote]“To just be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables’. Unfortunately there are people like that, and he has lifted them up,” she said.

    ...

    Speaking at ...[text shortened]... ouple of hours on Monday to see when it would come out). Either outcome is going to make me ill.
    Is it true though? This article presents evidence that it is:

    But “half” wasn’t wrong. “Half” wasn’t a gross generalization at all. “Half” was by all indications close to the truth.

    When pollsters and researchers want to measure racial bias, they don’t ask if respondents are “racist”; the stigma of being a racist is strong enough that most people won’t answer honestly, to say nothing of the fact that racial prejudice exists on a continuum. A binary answer doesn’t capture the complexity of bias and bigotry. Instead, they ask proxy questions that try to capture attitudes associated with racism. One such question—asked in multiple surveys by Public Policy Polling, a Democratic polling firm—is whether respondents believe President Obama was born in the United States and whether they believe he’s a Muslim. These questions begin to scratch the surface of racial bias. And what are the results? In one survey, two-thirds of Republicans with a favorable opinion of Donald Trump said that Obama is a Muslim, and 59 percent said he wasn’t born in the United States.

    There’s other data too. In June, Reuters measured the racial attitudes of Clinton, Trump, Ted Cruz, and John Kasich supporters. A significant number of supporters for each candidate voiced negative attitudes about black Americans. But Trump backers stood out in their animus. Nearly 50 percent said blacks were “more violent” than whites; almost as many said that blacks were “more criminal than whites.” More than 40 percent said that blacks were “more rude” than whites, and more than 30 percent said that blacks were “lazier” than whites.

    Perhaps the best data on questions of race and Trump comes from political scientist Jason McDaniel of San Francisco State University and Sean McElwee, a research associate at Demos, a left-leaning think tank. Using the 2016 pilot of the American National Election Study, conducted in January, they drill down on racial attitudes among Trump supporters. Given what we already know, their results shouldn’t come as a shock. More than 40 percent of all Republicans and more than 60 percent of Trump supporters say that Barack Obama is a Muslim. Compared with those who backed other candidates in the GOP primary, Trump supporters have cooler feelings toward blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, and LGBTQ Americans, and warmer feelings toward whites. By sizable margins, according to McElwee’s analysis of ANES, Trump supporters are more likely than non-Trump supporters to believe that blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims are lazier and more violent than whites. More than 60 percent of Trump supporters believe black people are more violent than whites; nearly 50 percent of non-Trump Republicans say this. More than 70 percent of Trump supporters believe Muslim people are more violent than whites; roughly 60 percent of non-Trump Republicans say this. These are deplorable views, and they represent the consensus opinion not just of Trump supporters but of all Republicans in the survey. If the study is at all reflective of the population at large on this score, we’re going to need a bigger basket.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Large numbers of white Americans hold anti-black or racially resentful views, and for a substantial portion, those views are politically salient. They drive decisions about voting and party identification. Donald Trump did not win the Republican presidential primary because he out-organized or out-campaigned his competitors; he won because he played directly to those views, and Republican elites refused to challenge him.

    Which gets to a larger truth: The Republican Party of the Obama years is an ethno-nationalist formation of white Americans. The ideological conservatism of its elites is less important than the raw resentment of its base. Trump has harnessed that and given voice to more virulent forms, to the point where key members of his campaign share neo-Nazi memes on social media.

    The dismay over Clinton’s comments—the insistence that it represents some kind of insult and not a statement of truth—reflects the degree to which many of our reporters and observers still shy away from these facts. But this moment demands clarity. Readers don’t need to know whether Clinton made a “gaffe.” They need to know whether she was right. Do millions of Americans hold explicitly racist views? Yes. Do roughly half of Donald Trump’s supporters fall into a so-called “basket of deplorables?” Yes.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/09/trump_s_basket_of_deplorables_hillary_clinton_was_right.html
  9. Germany
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    12 Sep '16 13:38
    Originally posted by whodey
    In a recent speech, Hillary indicated that Trump supporters were deplorable racists and haters and irredeemable.

    How many agree?

    http://kbctv.co.ke/blog/2016/09/10/clinton-calls-half-of-trump-supporters-deplorables/
    I don't think she will gain from this although she is being generous. The sample size is limited, but I have found that 100% of Trump voters are deplorable.

    Heck, leave it to Clinton to throw the election to the worst candidate for US president ever.
  10. Standard membervivify
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    12 Sep '16 13:59
    Originally posted by sh76
    She is completely out of touch (no surprise there).

    Hillary's comment implicitly applies to about 20% of her sought constituency.

    [quote]“To just be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables’. Unfortunately there are people like that, and he has lifted them up,” she said.

    ...

    Speaking at ...[text shortened]... ouple of hours on Monday to see when it would come out). Either outcome is going to make me ill.
    Trump is an openly racist, well-known sexist with a history of fraudulent businesses (like Trump University). To know this and still support him anyway does indeed make one deplorable, doesn't it? Put it this way: what if, instead of anti-Muslim, Trump was antisemitic? What if Trump called for the banning of Jews and supported enemy states of Israel? Would you be so quick to dismiss Hillary's statement?
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Sep '16 14:081 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I don't think she will gain from this although she is being generous. The sample size is limited, but I have found that 100% of Trump voters are deplorable.

    Heck, leave it to Clinton to throw the election to the worst candidate for US president ever.
    538 and the betting markets still have Hillary with about a 70% chance of winning.

    Trump would have to win all the States Romney carried + Ohio + Florida and still find 17 more Electoral College votes. That still seems a heavy lift to me.
  12. Standard membersh76
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    12 Sep '16 14:32
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    538 and the betting markets still have Hillary with about a 70% chance of winning.

    Trump would have to win all the States Romney carried + Ohio + Florida and still find 17 more Electoral College votes. That still seems a heavy lift to me.
    It's only a heavy lift based on Hillary's current 3-4 point lead in the national polls. In a popular vote tie, Trump would have an advantage according to 538 (4.5% chance that Clinton wins the popular vote but loses the EC compared to 1.9% chance of the converse, as of this moment http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/). He's got to make up about 3 points to have a realistic shot at winning. If he does, he'll win OH and FL. He'll still need Nevada, NH and Iowa OR Pennsylvania OR WI and either IA or NV. Remember, a tie likely goes to Trump, a factor to consider.

    How can he make up 3 points (realistically)? Assuming he doesn't say anything extremely stupid from here on out (his discipline has gotten a little better recently), it could come from another email revelation or 2, an unexpected economic downturn or security issue or by looking more confident, comfortable and in control in the debates.

    I agree with you that he's a long shot (I'd still call it as long as 3:1 based on his huge unfavorables), but he path in terms of states is not that hard.
  13. Germany
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    12 Sep '16 14:37
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    538 and the betting markets still have Hillary with about a 70% chance of winning.

    Trump would have to win all the States Romney carried + Ohio + Florida and still find 17 more Electoral College votes. That still seems a heavy lift to me.
    That chance of winning does not take into account (because these events happened very recently) the effect, if any, of the deplorable pneumonia, though.
  14. Cape Town
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    12 Sep '16 14:49
    Originally posted by sh76
    She didn't say "many." She said "half."
    I didn't say she said anything.
  15. Cape Town
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    12 Sep '16 14:52
    Originally posted by whodey
    So 50% is not many?

    I guess another gotcha moment from twhity cuz whodey is a liar don't ya know LOL.

    Meanwhile, Hillary never lies no matter how it may conflict with the truth cuz she is just being misunderstood.

    I have to say, I've lost a lot of respect for those on this forum who have defended Hillary as not being a liar. Pitiful.
    As usual, more lies and deliberate misrepresentation from whodey. Pitiful indeed. You don't even have the honesty to come out and say exactly what you mean but instead attempt to slander me with vague sentences and sarcasm. Why? Because you know full well that you are lying as usual and will be called on it.
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