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Debates Forum

  1. 18 Jan '10 14:22
    after seeing yet another natural disaster tear about one of the world's poorest nations,the majority already living in poverty are now a whole lot worse than before. home ruins, families worn apart... the death toll raising and countless others injured.

    why do you deserve to be brought up in a relatively wealthy country with no concern over where your next meal is coming from?

    what did the millions who suffer around the world do to deserve their cruel fate and what should you be doing to help the less fortunate? do you owe it to them? or do you simply not care, as long as you can eat, watch tv on your wide screen HD tv and lay blissfully unaware of the worlds problems during your two week vacation in the sun each year?
  2. 18 Jan '10 18:13
    Originally posted by trev33
    after seeing yet another natural disaster tear about one of the world's poorest nations,the majority already living in poverty are now a whole lot worse than before. home ruins, families worn apart... the death toll raising and countless others injured.

    why do you deserve to be brought up in a relatively wealthy country with no concern over where your nex ...[text shortened]... y blissfully unaware of the worlds problems during your two week vacation in the sun each year?
    Let's be knowing what you are 'doing about it'.
  3. 18 Jan '10 18:19
    Originally posted by trev33
    after seeing yet another natural disaster tear about one of the world's poorest nations,the majority already living in poverty are now a whole lot worse than before. home ruins, families worn apart... the death toll raising and countless others injured.

    why do you deserve to be brought up in a relatively wealthy country with no concern over where your nex ...[text shortened]... y blissfully unaware of the worlds problems during your two week vacation in the sun each year?
    So you're basically saying we (who are fortunate not to live in haiti or other poor country) should be miserable because others are miserable too?

    I don't feel any guilt because I didn't cause any disarters in poor countries, nor did I do anything to harm those people.
  4. Standard member monster truck
    Walleye Guy
    18 Jan '10 18:30
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    Let's be knowing what you are 'doing about it'.
    LMAO.
  5. 18 Jan '10 18:31
    They should of planned ahead.Its their own fault they live the way they do.
  6. 18 Jan '10 18:52
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    They should of planned ahead.Its their own fault they live the way they do.
    They should of planned ahead

    are you stoned? this makes no sense.


    Its their own fault they live the way they do.

    well, there are historical factors involved with poverty in certain countries, so if you look at the big picture, no, its not really their fault.
  7. 18 Jan '10 19:11
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    [b]They should of planned ahead

    are you stoned? this makes no sense.


    Its their own fault they live the way they do.

    well, there are historical factors involved with poverty in certain countries, so if you look at the big picture, no, its not really their fault.[/b]
    It does make sense. I am not referring to the earthquake,ofcourse. But to their way of governing and building their societies.
  8. 18 Jan '10 19:17
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    It does make sense.[b] I am not referring to the earthquake,ofcourse. But to their way of governing and building their societies.[/b]
    what about the historical factors as being an explanation for their poverty, you can't ignore that.
  9. 18 Jan '10 19:21
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    what about the historical factors as being an explanation for their poverty, you can't ignore that.
    Its all about "survival of the fittest". Great peoples,great nations succeed of fail based on their merits.
  10. 18 Jan '10 19:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Its all about "survival of the fittest". Great peoples,great nations succeed of fail based on their merits.
    wow, utherpendragon is a social darwinist?! I didn't see that coming.

    do you think it was right for the richer nations to exploit poorer ones? does "morality" mean anything to you?

    EDIT: Im not in any way against the belief of personal responsability or the belief that one is responsible for one's success, however, it is a well-known fact that throughout history there have been several examples where individuals were exploited by richer individuals, which has led to some countries being poorer than others.
  11. 18 Jan '10 19:34
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    wow, utherpendragon is a social darwinist?! I didn't see that coming.

    do you think it was right for the richer nations to exploit poorer ones? does "morality" mean anything to you?
    Survival of the fittest like I said. The strong prey on the weak. They are doing it in Hatti right now to each other. Its human nature. Morality has nothing to do w/it.
  12. 18 Jan '10 19:41 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Survival of the fittest like I said. The strong prey on the weak. They are doing it in Hatti right now to each other. Its human nature. Morality has nothing to do w/it.
    So in Utherworld the law of the jungle is preferred over the law of men?*

    *not to mention the law of God if you're religious.

    edit: I do understand the concept of survival of the fittest when referring to individuals, however, it should never be applied to countries.
  13. 18 Jan '10 19:47
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    So in Utherworld the law of the jungle is preferred over the law of men?*

    *not to mention the law of God if you're religious.
    I did not say what I prefer. I am just stating the way it is. They (whoever) is exploited by stronger peoples because they are weaker peoples. They in turn exploit ones weaker than them. Its the way it is. Show me a culture in the history of man where this has not been done
  14. 18 Jan '10 19:52
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I did not say what I prefer. I am just stating the way it is. They (whoever) is exploited by stronger peoples because they are weaker peoples. They in turn exploit ones weaker than them. Its the way it is. Show me a culture in the history of man where this has not been done
    that doesn't make it right.

    I can beat up kids and steal their money because Im stronger than them, but that doesn't mean I should do that. Richer countries can exploit poorer countries because they can afford to do that, but it doesn't mean they should.

    Claiming its their fault for being "inferior" or "weaker" than the "superior" peoples of richer countries is almost nazi-like.
  15. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    18 Jan '10 20:17 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by trev33
    after seeing yet another natural disaster tear about one of the world's poorest nations,the majority already living in poverty are now a whole lot worse than before. home ruins, families worn apart... the death toll raising and countless others injured.

    why do you deserve to be brought up in a relatively wealthy country with no concern over where your nex ...[text shortened]... y blissfully unaware of the worlds problems during your two week vacation in the sun each year?
    I feel a lot of different emotions whenever a disaster hits my fellow beings. I even feel some emotions when bad things happen to animals.

    Guilt is not one of these emotions. In the case of a nation that has turned itself over to corruption so completely as Haiti has done I feel no guilt. I feel sorry for them. I feel bad that any people or nation can come to rely on the "kindness of strangers" to the point where they depend on over 300 different NGA and NGO's to maintain what passes as sovereignty. They have been happy for a hundred years to let these non-governmental agencies and organizations provide for them.

    They are asset poor, but so is much of the earth. I have been poor, though not to the same extent. Would all of my meager wealth improve the lot of those abused by papa doc Duvalier? Would it help replace the 500 million dollar retirement fund that he stole from the people with the help of the UN? Or would it help return to the people the 300 million that Aristide took with him to South Africa when he was drummed out for corruption? Maybe he should be made to return those 300 million before I give up my few thousands of dollars. I should hope that people who gave money over several decades to help save "the people of Haiti" realize that what they truly did was to fill the pockets of these truly gross and evil men, and they are just a few of the thousands of UN related monsters that continue to line their pockets to this day. It should be obvious to anyone. The fact the William J. Clinton lobbied the UN in order to become their "Special Envoy To Haiti" should alone sound the clarion call to beware of evil men in the cloak of politic, itching to line their pockets with the lardar of fools of good intent.

    I am also old enough (62) to recognize a Sysaphistic nightmare of various emotions and failings -- should I become involved with trying to save every group of people on dear old mom earth that decide to rely on others for their existence. The stone is too large and my tiny will-to-be can barely manage to control my own existence of self-reliance, charity to all and trust in those who earn my trust.

    With that said, I did give a thousand dollars yesterday to Catholic relief services for their Haiti fund. I have found them to be one of the best NGO's at getting the help to the poorest levels of the needy. Being a reluctant atheist does not preclude me from trusting good people when I find them, and in my 40 years of giving and checking up, they seem to be good people.

    One thing that I never expect to hear in this world when it comes to fighting poverty is that exuberant proclamation of Pheidippides upon completion of his run from Marathon... "Rejoice! We've Won!"