Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '10 03:12 / 1 edit
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/05/egyptian-court-upholds-decision-strip-citizenship-egyptians-married-israeli/

    An Egyptian appeals court on Saturday upheld a ruling that orders the country's Interior Ministry to strip the citizenship from Egyptians married to Israeli women.

    The case underlines the deep animosity many Egyptians still hold toward Israelis, despite a peace treaty signed between the two countries 31 years ago.

    The Supreme Administrative Court's decision also scores a point for Egyptian hard-liners who have long resisted any improvement in ties with Israel since the signing of the 1979 peace treaty.

    In upholding last year's lower court ruling, the appeals court said Saturday that the Interior Ministry should present each marriage case to the Cabinet on an individual basis. The Cabinet will then rule on whether to strip the Egyptian of his citizenship.

    The court also said officials should take into consideration whether a man married an Israeli Arab or a Jew when making its decision to revoke citizenship.

    Saturday's decision, which cannot be appealed, comes more than year after a lower court ruled that the Interior Ministry, which deals with citizenship documents, must implement the 1976 article of the citizenship law. That bill revokes citizenship of Egyptians who married Israelis who have served in the army or embrace Zionism as an ideology. The Interior Ministry appealed that ruling.

    The lawyer who brought the original suit to court, Nabih el-Wahsh, celebrated Saturday's ruling, saying it "is aimed at protecting Egyptian youth and Egypt's national security."



    I hope all will join in condemning this racist, xenophobic and provocative ruling even if it's merely in between taking swipes at Israel.
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    06 Jun '10 03:20 / 2 edits
    Ugly stuff in Egyptian domestic politics is nothing new - although I note that this is an action taken by a private citizen and is opposed by the Egyptian government. Neverthelerss, do you think the flow of hefty U.S. aid and military support will some day be stopped or reduced? Would a racist, xenophobic and provocative ruling against its own citizens, such as this, be enough to make the U.S. think twice or will it be business as usual?
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '10 03:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    Ugly stuff in Egyptian domestic politics is nothing new. Do you think the flow of hefty U.S. aid and military support will some day be stopped or reduced? Would a racist, xenophobic and provocative ruling against its own citizens, such as this, be enough to make the U.S. think twice or will it be business as usual?
    Like you said, it's nothing new.

    I'm not advocating any punitive steps be taken against Egypt based on this by anyone. Their internal laws and politics are their own business.

    I just wish people would mention this sort of thing every once in a while with the condemnations of Israel for less provocative domestic policies (I'm not referring to the Gaza siege, but the flimsy "apartheid" type allegations that are constantly leveled Israel's way).
  4. 06 Jun '10 03:48
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/05/egyptian-court-upholds-decision-strip-citizenship-egyptians-married-israeli/

    [i]An Egyptian appeals court on Saturday upheld a ruling that orders the country's Interior Ministry to strip the citizenship from Egyptians married to Israeli women.

    The case underlines the deep animosity many Egyptians still hold toward I ...[text shortened]... nophobic and provocative ruling even if it's merely in between taking swipes at Israel.
    These people are not xenophobic, rather, they just have a simple disagreement with the zionist state.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    06 Jun '10 04:07
    Originally posted by sh76
    I just wish people would mention this sort of thing every once in a while with the condemnations of Israel for less provocative domestic policies (I'm not referring to the Gaza siege, but the flimsy "apartheid" type allegations that are constantly leveled Israel's way).
    Presumably this works both ways, sh76? In the course of taking an understandable swipe at a case brought by an Egyptian lawyer, and upheld by a court of appeal - despite being opposed by the government in Cairo which seeks NOT to discriminate against its own citizens in the way hardliners want it to - you are, presumably, now going to condemn what many neutral observers see as the racist, xenophobic and provocative policies pertaining to Arab Israelis that have been enacted and enforced by those Israelis' own government? This would be exactly the right thread for you to do so.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    06 Jun '10 05:41
    Israel imposes 'racist' marriage law

    Palestinian-Israeli couples will be forced to leave or live apart


    By Justin Huggler in Jerusalem

    Friday, 1 August 2003

    Israel's Parliament has passed a law preventing Palestinians who marry Israelis from living in Israel. The move was denounced by human rights organisations as racist, undemocratic and discriminatory.

    Israel's Parliament has passed a law preventing Palestinians who marry Israelis from living in Israel. The move was denounced by human rights organisations as racist, undemocratic and discriminatory.

    Under the new law, rushed through yesterday, Palestinians alone will be excluded from obtaining citizenship or residency. Anyone else who marries an Israeli will be entitled to Israeli citizenship.

    Now Israeli Arabs who marry Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza Strip will either have to move to the occupied territories, or live apart from their husband or wife. Their children will be affected too: from the age of 12 they will be denied citizenship or residency and forced to move out of Israel.

    Continues at http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-imposes-racist-marriage-law-588637.html


    This is actual Israeli government policy and it is enforced. So I suppose that makes it different from the case cited in the OP where a comparable (proposed) policy in Egypt is opposed by its government and isn't (yet) enforced.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '10 14:02
    Originally posted by FMF
    [quote][b]Israel imposes 'racist' marriage law

    Palestinian-Israeli couples will be forced to leave or live apart


    By Justin Huggler in Jerusalem

    Friday, 1 August 2003

    Israel's Parliament has passed a law preventing Palestinians who marry Israelis from living in Israel. The move was denounced by human rights organisations as racist, undemocr ...[text shortened]... omparable (proposed) policy in Egypt is opposed by its government and isn't (yet) enforced.[/b]
    First, yes, I am happy to criticize that rule. I hope the same groups who condemned the Israeli rule will also condemn the Egyptian one.

    However, the 2 rules are hardly comparable. The Israeli rule doesn't strip anyone of citizenship or otherwise punish anyone for marrying a Palensinian. It merely refuses to extend automatic citizenship to the new spouse. Not every country extends citizenship automatically to spouses of citizens. The only thing that makes the Israeli rule objectionable is that it differentiates between Palestinian spouses and other spouses.

    The Egyptian rule affirmatively punishes a citizen by stripping citizenship from the Egyptian citizen for doing nothing more than marrying an Israeli. It's hardly the same thing.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    06 Jun '10 14:35
    Originally posted by sh76
    However, the 2 rules are hardly comparable.
    Yes, I know. I applaud the Egyptian government's opposition to the enforcement of the xenophobic rule in Egypt. Meanwhile I deplore the Israeli government's enforcement of the xenophobic rule in Israel.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    06 Jun '10 14:38 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    The Israeli rule doesn't strip anyone of citizenship or otherwise punish anyone for marrying a Palestinian.
    The Israeli rule doesn't strip anyone of citizenship

    Really? You have a novel way of reading it - or, shall we say, downplaying it!

    You're ok with your children being automatically deported from your country of birth (and their country of birth) and the country of your citizenship when they reach the age of 12?

    Israeli Arabs who marry Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza Strip will either have to move to the occupied territories, or live apart from their husband or wife. Their children will be affected too: from the age of 12 they will be denied citizenship or residency and forced to move out of Israel.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '10 15:28
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]The Israeli rule doesn't strip anyone of citizenship

    Really? You have a novel way of reading it - or, shall we say, downplaying it!

    You're ok with your children being automatically deported from your country of birth (and their country of birth) and the country of your citizenship when they reach the age of 12?

    Israeli Arabs who marry Palesti ...[text shortened]... age of 12 they will be denied citizenship or residency and forced to move out of Israel. [/b]
    No, I'm not okay with that. I abhor the policy, as I believe I stated above.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    06 Jun '10 15:43
    Originally posted by sh76
    No, I'm not okay with that. I abhor the policy, as I believe I stated above.
    And you also applaud the Egyptian government's opposition to hardliners' attempts to influence national policy towards citizenship?
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '10 15:48
    Originally posted by FMF
    And you also applaud the Egyptian government's opposition to hardliners' attempts to influence national policy towards citizenship?
    Absolutely. Any opposition to the hateful policy is commendable.
  13. Standard member Tychoo
    F**k the EU, IMF,WB
    06 Jun '10 15:55
    With an attitude like that from Egypt do really expect peace in the middle east. It suites the governments of the region to focus all their woes are caused by Israel.
  14. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    06 Jun '10 16:10
    Originally posted by sh76
    I hope all will join in condemning this racist, xenophobic and provocative ruling even if it's merely in between taking swipes at Israel.
    Boohoo.

    I hope you've felt self-righteous enough for today.
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Jun '10 16:13
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Boohoo.

    I hope you've felt self-righteous enough for today.
    I'm always righteous.

    That's why I'm right all the time.