Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    06 Mar '19 06:39
    @moonbus said
    The fact that certain things are condemned in the Bible may be a reason for Christians not to do those things, but it is no reason for a secular state to criminalize them.

    Some things are permitted or even commanded in the Bible. That is no reason for a secular state, no modern civilized one anyway, to permit or require the same things. We don’t sacrifice live animals on stone altars anymore, which is what Leviticus is all about. Exodus 22:18 we are well rid of.
    Right, but Christianity never endorsed moving forward with classic Hebrew legalism. Our savior overturned all of that.

    Never saw a sacrificial altar in a church, either.

    And what does secular mean?

    Does it mean that no religious values should have influence, or that no religious discrimination should occur?
  2. Subscribermoonbus
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    06 Mar '19 06:56
    @no1marauder said


    I could fill up the page with right wing evangelical pastors who said Trump was "an instrument of God"
    God works in mysterious ways. Some of God’s instruments are unwilling and unwitting. 😉
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    06 Mar '19 07:02
    @philokalia said
    Right, but Christianity never endorsed moving forward with classic Hebrew legalism. Our savior overturned all of that.

    Never saw a sacrificial altar in a church, either.

    And what does secular mean?

    Does it mean that no religious values should have influence, or that no religious discrimination should occur?
    It means the state has no business legislating a religious agenda. Neither yours nor any other.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Mar '19 07:031 edit
    @philokalia said
    Right, but Christianity never endorsed moving forward with classic Hebrew legalism. Our savior overturned all of that.

    Never saw a sacrificial altar in a church, either.

    And what does secular mean?

    Does it mean that no religious values should have influence, or that no religious discrimination should occur?
    Christian countries retained the death penalty for homosexual sodomy until at least the mid-1800s and felony status for it long after that.

    Right wingers, esp. Evangelical Christians, screeched when the SCOTUS found such laws unconstitutional in 2003 with Scalia moaning that the Court had adopted the "homosexual agenda".
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    06 Mar '19 07:45
    @no1marauder said
    Christian countries retained the death penalty for homosexual sodomy until at least the mid-1800s and felony status for it long after that.

    Right wingers, esp. Evangelical Christians, screeched when the SCOTUS found such laws unconstitutional in 2003 with Scalia moaning that the Court had adopted the "homosexual agenda".
    It was probably maintained for the same reason that Japanese and Koreans who have grown up with no religion but maybe some low intensity Buddhism/Shintoism/shamanism on the side have regarded as one of the more bizarre abominations and say things like "There are no gays here" and for the same reason the Teutons are believed to have drowned gays in bogs, though, right.

    It's not really saying much about Christianity. It's saying more about timeless cultural attitudes.
  6. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    06 Mar '19 07:47
    @no1marauder said
    Have you seen the Trump Prophecy yet? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/03/the-trump-prophecy-film-god-election-mark-taylor

    I could fill up the page with right wing evangelical pastors who said Trump was "an instrument of God" and/or that the 2016 election was decided by divine intervention.

    EDIT: Heck, here's a few: https://friendlyatheist.patheos ...[text shortened]... ine/story/2018/01/27/millions-of-americans-believe-god-made-trump-president-216537

    etc. etc. etc.
    I think you don't really understand what is being said by Christian conservatives and are only paying attention to the Televangelist crowd, and not the meat & potatos Christian conservative crowd.

    And maybe what you say is more indicative of mainstream evangelists.

    I don't know.

    But, as a long-time listener and follower of major Christian conservative figures who aren't televangelists, I do not really know what any of this is, and even when I know what it is, I understand it as decontextualized.

    Maybe I am wishful thinking, and maybe the fact that I am not a Protestant comes into play, but IDK.

    This stuff always ends up being a series of bad takes.
  7. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    06 Mar '19 07:47
    @moonbus said
    It means the state has no business legislating a religious agenda. Neither yours nor any other.
    What would be legislating a religious agenda?
  8. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    06 Mar '19 07:48
    @moonbus said
    God works in mysterious ways. Some of God’s instruments are unwilling and unwitting. 😉
    Unironically, yes.
  9. Subscribermoonbus
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    06 Mar '19 15:031 edit
    @philokalia said
    What would be legislating a religious agenda?
    For example, mandating that man is made in God's image be taught in the public schools; teaching Creationism as science, in the public schools.
  10. Standard memberLundos
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    06 Mar '19 15:12
    @moonbus said
    For example, mandating that man is made in God's image be taught in the public schools; teaching Creationism as science, in the public schools.
    Isn't it about time to look into taxing religious organizations?
  11. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    06 Mar '19 15:21
    @lundos said
    Isn't it about time to look into taxing religious organizations?
    Especially those which are overtly involved in political advocacy.
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    06 Mar '19 15:23
    @philokalia said
    It was probably maintained for the same reason that Japanese and Koreans who have grown up with no religion but maybe some low intensity Buddhism/Shintoism/shamanism on the side have regarded as one of the more bizarre abominations and say things like "There are no gays here" and for the same reason the Teutons are believed to have drowned gays in bogs, though, right.

    It's not really saying much about Christianity. It's saying more about timeless cultural attitudes.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes
  13. SubscriberKingDavid403
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    06 Mar '19 16:00
    @philokalia said
    It's interesting how you perceive Christians as being the flow of society , something that you might still have been able to argue in the eighties and nineties but was very tenable even then.

    OK, I guess if you perceive LGBTQ as an under represented and weak force in society being oppressed... I could see how you might shy away from criticizing it as it would be irrelevant.

    But David, that's a little silly, isn't it?
    But David, that's a little silly, isn't it?
    Your hypocrisy is beyond silly; and, you make more of a fool of yourself with every post. Your hypocrisy and that of many evangelicals have clearly been pointed out to you in my and others posts on this thread. You have nothing left but your sinful hypocrisy, and you're starting to bore me with you narcissism. Nice try tho 😉 Good day.
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