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Debates Forum

  1. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Jun '18 14:281 edit
    Every conservative who thinks the NFL players' protest is about the flag, or the military, or vets should read this article.

    Fox News and the president both have it wrong, and they're both willing to lie to keep it that way.


    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/real-message-getting-lost-white-houses-war-nfl-201054902.html
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    06 Jun '18 14:34
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    Every conservative who thinks the NFL players' protest is about the flag, or the military, or vets should read this article.

    Fox News and the president both have it wrong, and they're both willing to lie to keep it that way.


    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/real-message-getting-lost-white-houses-war-nfl-201054902.html
    So it seems the real reason POTUS rejected the Eagles was because the majority of the team refused to come to the dinner, having really nothing to do with anyone kneeling or whatever during the playing of the National Anthem. One late night talk show, Kimmel? said only 3 members of the team plus the owner plus a mascot were the only confirmed people intending to attend. Don't know the varacity of that statement though.
  3. Behind the scenes
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    06 Jun '18 14:35
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    Every conservative who thinks the NFL players' protest is about the flag, or the military, or vets should read this article.

    Fox News and the president both have it wrong, and they're both willing to lie to keep it that way.


    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/real-message-getting-lost-white-houses-war-nfl-201054902.html
    Yes, they should read it, but how many actually will. The few that do will dismiss it all as fake news.
  4. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    06 Jun '18 14:38
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    So it seems the real reason POTUS rejected the Eagles was because the majority of the team refused to come to the dinner, having really nothing to do with anyone kneeling or whatever during the playing of the National Anthem. One late night talk show, Kimmel? said only 3 members of the team plus the owner plus a mascot were the only confirmed people intending to attend. Don't know the varacity of that statement though.
    That's pretty much it.

    Trump; ever-the-more-concerned about his "optics"... cancelled the invitation before it appeared that nobody wanted to attend.

    The same old: "I broke up with you first!" defense.
  5. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    06 Jun '18 14:42
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    That's pretty much it.

    Trump; ever-the-more-concerned about his "optics"... cancelled the invitation before it appeared that nobody wanted to attend.

    The same old: "I broke up with you first!" defense.
    While that may be true, he was left with no choice. No president would intentionally endure such embarrassment on a worldwide TV broadcast. The Eagles essentially cancelled at the last second, just to make SURE Trump got screwed over.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    06 Jun '18 14:49
    The part I found distinctly odious was Fox News deciding to use footage of NFL players kneeling IN PRAYER before a game to further inflame the president into further attacks on the NFL so that he can agitate his base against them.

    “Imagine wanting to please the boss so very badly that you run stills of guys knelt down PRAYING during pregame,” Eagles defensive end Chris Long wrote on Twitter. “Not one Eagles player knelt for the anthem this yr. Keep carrying his water to sow division while misrepresenting Christian men.”

    Long went on to say Fox is “complicit in PLAYING America,” and called it another day at the office for the cable news station, while Long’s teammate, tight end Zach Ertz, and San Francisco 49ers cornerback Richard Sherman, were equally ticked.

    “This can’t be serious,” Ertz wrote. “Praying before games with my teammates, well before the anthem, is being used for your propaganda?! Just sad, I feel like you guys should have to be better than this.”

    “It’s called propaganda,” Sherman wrote. “It’s been used before but hey … those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.”

    Not to mention, that due to the lies being spread about this by Fox and the WH, the actual message the protesting players were trying to send just gets lost in the breeze.

    "I can absolutely tell you that Smith’s and Jenkins’ frustration in this moment is shared by many other players around the league, because once again, it’s important to remember that the protesting players that have made it clear publicly — numerous times — that the anthem protests are only about police brutality and social inequality against people of color. That’s it. Nothing else."
  7. Standard membersh76
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    06 Jun '18 14:53
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    Every conservative who thinks the NFL players' protest is about the flag, or the military, or vets should read this article.

    Fox News and the president both have it wrong, and they're both willing to lie to keep it that way.


    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/real-message-getting-lost-white-houses-war-nfl-201054902.html
    You're missing the point. Of course (most) people know that the protests are about police brutality and social inequality. But the debate is, perforce, also about flag or the military.

    The players' argument is that kneeling or sitting for the anthem is a proper venue for protest about police brutality and social inequality. The counterargument is that they should stand out of respect for the flag and the military and use another venue, other than the anthem, to protest police brutality and social inequality.

    Personally, I don't give a damn what the players think (I watch them because I like watching football games, not because I give a hoot what their politics are), though the NFL has every right to force them to conduct themselves on the field and in uniform in a manner that will not hurt the league. But by protesting the anthem, which is synonymous with the flag and the military, the players make the debate include the flag and the military, regardless of what the protest is about.
  8. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    06 Jun '18 14:541 edit
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    The part I found distinctly odious was Fox News deciding to use footage of NFL players kneeling IN PRAYER before a game to further inflame the president into further attacks on the NFL so that he can agitate his base against them.

    “Imagine wanting to please the boss so very badly that you run stills of guys knelt down PRAYING during pregame,” Eag ...[text shortened]... about police brutality and social inequality against people of color. That’s it. Nothing else."
    For better or for worse, we have a president who watches the media and reacts. Some conservatives might be quite pleased that for once, if the pundits say something that makes sense, there's a chance the president will look into it.

    I've watched pretty close since the pres got elected and I am watching all the pundits, TV and Radio, scramble for the president's attention and make their arguments in favor of this or that.

    There is definitely a downside possibility to this but again, some are quite pleased about it.
  9. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    06 Jun '18 15:08
    Originally posted by @sh76
    You're missing the point. Of course (most) people know that the protests are about police brutality and social inequality. But the debate is, perforce, also about flag or the military.

    The players' argument is that kneeling or sitting for the anthem is a proper venue for protest about police brutality and social inequality. The counterargument is that they ...[text shortened]... yers make the debate include the flag and the military, regardless of what the protest is about.
    It's not for me to say what form of protest is correct for the NFL's players. I don't believe I'd protest in that fashion...but I'm not wearing the cleats either.

    These very same sentiments were on display during the Olympics in Mexico, 50 years ago. The African-American Gold and Bronze Medal Winners, protested racial inequality by raising their black-gloved fists high in the air during the National Anthem.

    The world did not end.

    About the NFL: These men are Americans. They have a legitimate complaint. They have a right to protest.

    I'm fairly certain that King George III didn't find certain Colonial-American acts very patriotic as well. Look where his knee-jerk attempts to squelch dissent landed him.
  10. Standard membersh76
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    06 Jun '18 15:49
    Originally posted by @wolfe63
    It's not for me to say what form of protest is correct for the NFL's players. I don't believe I'd protest in that fashion...but I'm not wearing the cleats either.

    These very same sentiments were on display during the Olympics in Mexico, 50 years ago. The African-American Gold and Bronze Medal Winners, protested racial inequality by raising their black-gl ...[text shortened]... an acts very patriotic as well. Look where his knee-jerk attempts to squelch dissent landed him.
    === It's not for me to say what form of protest is correct for the NFL's players. I don't believe I'd protest in that fashion...but I'm not wearing the cleats either. ===

    Correct. It is not for you to say. However, it IS for the NFL to say, as they are wearing NFL uniforms and participating in an NFL event.

    === About the NFL: These men are Americans. They have a legitimate complaint. They have a right to protest. ===

    They have the right to protest, but the NFL doesn't have to allow them to protest while wearing the NFL uniform and participating in an NFL event. Freedom of speech doesn't mean my employee can stand in my store and tell my customers that I'm a fraud without repercussions.
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    06 Jun '18 15:51
    If they want to help the poor they should donate all their money then kneel.
  12. Joined
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    06 Jun '18 15:582 edits
    Originally posted by @sh76
    You're missing the point. Of course (most) people know that the protests are about police brutality and social inequality. But the debate is, perforce, also about flag or the military.

    The players' argument is that kneeling or sitting for the anthem is a proper venue for protest about police brutality and social inequality. The counterargument is that they ...[text shortened]... yers make the debate include the flag and the military, regardless of what the protest is about.
    Spot on.

    And the players understand the controversy they created because they wanted attention like a screaming 3 year old. They can pretend to be shocked about the controversy all they want but the truth says otherwise. They would rather offend people who love the country in order to push an agenda.

    Well, they got their attention. Now what?

    What has it gotten them?

    Perhaps they scored some talking points against Trump. That is pretty much all, assuming that has even helped.
  13. SubscriberTom Wolsey
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    06 Jun '18 15:59
    Originally posted by @eladar
    If they want to help the poor they should donate all their money then kneel.
    And their posturing before a football game doesn't do anything to help the alleged, rampant racism problem in law enforcement. If they want to change the culture, they need to dedicate resources. Their time in the communities, and their money. If they don't do that then it's obvious, they aren't serious.
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    06 Jun '18 16:021 edit
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    And their posturing before a football game doesn't do anything to help the alleged, rampant racism problem in law enforcement. If they want to change the culture, they need to dedicate resources. Their time in the communities, and their money. If they don't do that then it's obvious, they aren't serious.
    Things were so peachy under Obama and then race relations just seemed to go in the crapper once Trump took over.

    Crazy, huh?
  15. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    06 Jun '18 16:09
    Originally posted by @sh76
    === It's not for me to say what form of protest is correct for the NFL's players. I don't believe I'd protest in that fashion...but I'm not wearing the cleats either. ===

    Correct. It is not for you to say. However, it IS for the NFL to say, as they are wearing NFL uniforms and participating in an NFL event.

    === About the NFL: These men are Americans. The ...[text shortened]... my employee can stand in my store and tell my customers that I'm a fraud without repercussions.
    If you are not a fraud...why worry?
    Repercussions only occur if false-truths are revealed.
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