Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Behind the scenes
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    29 Jan '18 02:53
    I knew Bobby Fischer disliked the Jews, but after watching a few youtube clips on this, I was shocked at how much. As near as I can tell Bobby Fischer's mother was a Jewish lady, so what can we conclude? He hated his mother, hated himself, or was he just on the "other side" of looney?
    😕

    http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=18

    YouTube

    YouTube
  2. Standard membershavixmir
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    29 Jan '18 04:291 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    I knew Bobby Fischer disliked the Jews, but after watching a few youtube clips on this, I was shocked at how much. As near as I can tell Bobby Fischer's mother was a Jewish lady, so what can we conclude? He hated his mother, hated himself, or was he just on the "other side" of looney?
    😕

    http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=18

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS0oXXJCbdg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_11Cdxvtfo
    Never knew he dislikes Jews.

    He says the Jews are genetically inclined to blah blah blah...
    But he is genetically a Jew.

    He doesn’t seem to explain why his genes seem unaffected.

    On the other hand, I’m not entirely in agreement that Judaism is genetic.... seems much more cultural to me.

    I mean:
    Scarlett Johanssen
    Mila Kunis
    Harrison Ford
    Woody Allen
    Jack Black
    Danial Radcliff

    They’re all Jewish... I don’t see the genetic make-up.
    I don’t see Harrison Ford having Allen’s cliche New York Jewish sense of humour and I don’t see the similarity between Mina Klunis and Netenyahoo.

    I reckon Bobby is a potato short of a hamin (cholent).
  3. Joined
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    29 Jan '18 06:161 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Never knew he dislikes Jews.

    He says the Jews are genetically inclined to blah blah blah...
    But he is genetically a Jew.

    He doesn’t seem to explain why his genes seem unaffected.

    On the other hand, I’m not entirely in agreement that Judaism is genetic.... seems much more cultural to me.

    I mean:
    Scarlett Johanssen
    Mila Kunis
    Harrison Ford
    ...[text shortened]... ty between Mina Klunis and Netenyahoo.

    I reckon Bobby is a potato short of a hamin (cholent).
    My mother is 3/4s Jewish but not considered Jewish.

    Therefore I am 3/8s Jewish. I can tell you right now the genes are not affected. The religion is passed through the mother, and the father is pretty irrelevant.

    There are so many American celebrities who have Jewish ancestry.
  4. Standard membershavixmir
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    29 Jan '18 06:44
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    My mother is 3/4s Jewish but not considered Jewish.

    Therefore I am 3/8s Jewish. I can tell you right now the genes are not affected. The religion is passed through the mother, and the father is pretty irrelevant.

    There are so many American celebrities who have Jewish ancestry.
    Maybe they're not taking over the world by banking, but by acting instead...

    THE HORROR! OH THE HORROR!!!

    I googled it. I had no idea any one of them were Jewish (well, except Woody Allen and Seinfeld then).
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    29 Jan '18 15:33
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Maybe they're not taking over the world by banking, but by acting instead...

    THE HORROR! OH THE HORROR!!!

    I googled it. I had no idea any one of them were Jewish (well, except Woody Allen and Seinfeld then).
    YouTube : Adam Sandler Chanukah Songs
  6. Standard membershavixmir
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    29 Jan '18 16:11
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    [youtube Adam Sandler Chanukah Songs]IQY9z4Ko3FE[/youtube]
    I know it. Brilliant!

    Bruce Springsteen’s not a Jew, but my mother thinks he is...
  7. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    30 Jan '18 02:02
    Fischer was quite famous for this. I have never looked into the specifics of his beliefs and I am only here to contribute a little...

    - The Jewish people historically mixed with non-Jewish neighbors all the time. This isn't a recent thing. For instance, Zadok, a high Priest, was a Jebusite. Literally, a former gentile was fully incorporated into the Jewish body and maintained a high position.

    Jews were allowed to intermarry and adopt.

    - There are unique genetic markers among Jews. One of my buddies is a blond haired Ashkenazi Jew who lives in Russia but also insists that even though he has a very European appearance his genetics have more in common with Jews of different appearances than they do with the average Russian. I haven't bothered doubting him.

    After all, we do know that there were even congenital diseases exclsuvie to Jewish people which probably developed due to having too small of a gene pool over the course of centuries -- such as the Tay-Sachs disease.

    So I think... on the one hand, being Jewish is mostly just cultural, but there is definitely a basis for believing it to be an ethnicity and who am I to doubt the considerations of Jewish people themselves.

    Many of our "Jews for Jesus" / "Messianic Jews" feel that it is vital to retain their identities as Jewish people from a cultural perspective. As they have been a persecuted minority before, it is important to not simply slough off that baggage. A terrific example of this is the French philosopher Henri Bergsson who, by all accounts, appears to have converted to Catholicism privately, receiving a baptism, the eucharist, and last rites, but during the Holocaust he never let it be public that he had converted to Catholicsm because he wanted to show his solidarity with Jewish people who were suffering throughout Europe.
  8. Zugzwang
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    30 Jan '18 02:24
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Never knew he dislikes Jews.

    He says the Jews are genetically inclined to blah blah blah...
    But he is genetically a Jew.

    He doesn’t seem to explain why his genes seem unaffected.

    On the other hand, I’m not entirely in agreement that Judaism is genetic.... seems much more cultural to me.

    I mean:
    Scarlett Johanssen
    Mila Kunis
    Harrison Ford
    ...[text shortened]... ty between Mina Klunis and Netenyahoo.

    I reckon Bobby is a potato short of a hamin (cholent).
    "But he [Bobby Fischer] is genetically a Jew."
    --Shavixmir

    Anyone, regardless of genetic ancestry, can become a Jew by converting to Judaism.
    Then why should not anyone, regardless of Jewish ancestry, become a non-Jew by
    converting to another religion?

    Bobby Fischer joined (and later left) the Worldwide Church of God, founded by Herbert Armstrong,
    which was a fringe Christian church. Having discussed this issue with Jews, I would submit
    that anyone of Jewish ancestry who voluntarily joins a Christian church is no longer a Jew.

    Now it's true that the Nazis refused to acknowledge that Jews who had converted to Christianity
    (such as Edith Stein) were real Christians and still persecuted them for being Jewish.
    But I don't believe that we should blindly follow the Nazi definitions of Jewishness.
  9. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    30 Jan '18 04:00
    Duchess, there are many Jews who view it as also beign an ethnicity. What would you say to them? You run the risk of being accused of denying their identity.
  10. Joined
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    30 Jan '18 04:32
    Originally posted by @jacob-verville
    Duchess, there are many Jews who view it as also beign an ethnicity. What would you say to them? You run the risk of being accused of denying their identity.
    Judaism is a religion. There are Jews throughout the globe. It is not a race. Regardless of race or ethnicity, you can be Jewish. Duchess is correct.
  11. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    30 Jan '18 05:26
    Originally posted by @phranny
    Judaism is a religion. There are Jews throughout the globe. It is not a race. Regardless of race or ethnicity, you can be Jewish. Duchess is correct.
    I do not think that this is the best position to have.

    Henri Bergsson, a famous Jewish philosophy, converted to Catholicism, but he never publicly announced it to show his solidarity with other Jewish people.

    Jewish people who become Christians still often identify as Messianic Jews.

    And what of atheist Jewish persons who have been targeted for hate crimes for being Jewish? I know atheist Jewish people who still identify as Jews, and I know they are still identified as Jews by many others. Sure, we can try to deny this category, but what right do we have to do that?
  12. Standard membershavixmir
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    30 Jan '18 05:43
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "But he [Bobby Fischer] is genetically a Jew."
    --Shavixmir

    Anyone, regardless of genetic ancestry, can become a Jew by converting to Judaism.
    Then why should not anyone, regardless of Jewish ancestry, become a non-Jew by
    converting to another religion?

    Bobby Fischer joined (and later left) the Worldwide Church of God, founded by Herbert Armstro ...[text shortened]... g Jewish.
    But I don't believe that we should blindly follow the Nazi definitions of Jewishness.
    We shouldn’t blindly follow nazi definitions?

    Why on Earth not?
    Nothing bad will come of it, I’m sure...

    That... everyone... is a joke.

    However, the PR community pretty much loves Goebbels....
    And that’s not a joke.
  13. Standard membershavixmir
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    30 Jan '18 05:51
    Originally posted by @jacob-verville
    Fischer was quite famous for this. I have never looked into the specifics of his beliefs and I am only here to contribute a little...

    - The Jewish people historically mixed with non-Jewish neighbors all the time. This isn't a recent thing. For instance, Zadok, a high Priest, was a Jebusite. Literally, a former gentile was fully incorporated into ...[text shortened]... ecause he wanted to show his solidarity with Jewish people who were suffering throughout Europe.
    You do know that Tay-Sachs disease is not restricted to Jews, don’t you?

    Seriously.
    Before making ludricous statements like that, do a bit of fact checking.

    It’s passed along if both parents are carriers at a rate of 25%. It’s a non-dominant gene.

    This means that close knit communities are more likely to have it.

    I believe they have it in Quebec (or parts? I’d have to google it to be sure though) and in French communities outside of France.
    But not in France itself.
  14. Standard membershavixmir
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    30 Jan '18 06:001 edit
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    You do know that Tay-Sachs disease is not restricted to Jews, don’t you?

    Seriously.
    Before making ludricous statements like that, do a bit of fact checking.

    It’s passed along if both parents are carriers at a rate of 25%. It’s a non-dominant gene.

    This means that close knit communities are more likely to have it.

    I believe they have it in Que ...[text shortened]... le it to be sure though) and in French communities outside of France.
    But not in France itself.
    Oh, and in case you’re wondering: how the hell would he (he being me) know anything about some random disease nobody’s ever heard about...

    None of your business.
    But, for once I will explain.

    We had a horrendous child death at a refugee camp I was working at. Parents were from Algeria (although I should not be blamed if my memory fails me), I think.

    Turned out it was Tay-sachs.
    The reason it always stuck in my mind was that the medical officer who explained it told us that people with Tay-sachs are immune to TB (which can be wide spread amongst refugees... especially Eastern European ones). But that they all die as children.

    That always struck me as proof that God is either a bastard or has a sick sense of humor.

    But really, it was such a strange bit of information...

    EDIT:
    Writing that down, I just realized, maybe the MO was saying the recessive carriers are immune to TB... hahaha

    Damn, just goes to show!
    I’ll have to look into it to tonight.
  15. Joined
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    30 Jan '18 07:24
    Originally posted by @phranny
    Judaism is a religion. There are Jews throughout the globe. It is not a race. Regardless of race or ethnicity, you can be Jewish. Duchess is correct.
    Genetics says otherwise. Take a DNA test and it will show you as Ashkenazi Jewish, religiously Jewish or not.
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