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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 18 Feb '16 16:44
    Before he gets a chance to win the republican nomination I thought it would be good to debate the pros and cons of the flat tax. Is it a good idea? Forbes did not win the nomination many years ago. Can Cruz win against a democrat with a tax proposal that is not progressive?

    http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-a-flat-tax-a-good-idea

    If Cruz wins the republican nomination it will basically give Americans 2 choices, a flat tax agenda or a carbon tax agenda. right?
  2. 18 Feb '16 16:54 / 1 edit
    It's not a bad idea combined with a tax-free deduction (or better: a negative income tax bracket) and the abolition of other taxes (state and local). Of course the percentage would have to be higher than what Cruz is proposing.
  3. 18 Feb '16 17:05
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    It's not a bad idea combined with a tax-free deduction (or better: a negative income tax bracket) and the abolition of other taxes (state and local). Of course the percentage would have to be higher than what Cruz is proposing.
    In the last republican debate Cruz said those making less than 35,000 per year would not have to pay any income tax under his plan. For that reason I am considering it a possible good thing, but it would be easier on the wealthy. Would that increase the gap between the rich and poor? As you pointed out before, poor people have more health problems and die sooner than the rich in the USA.
  4. 18 Feb '16 17:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Before he gets a chance to win the republican nomination I thought it would be good to debate the pros and cons of the flat tax. Is it a good idea? Forbes did not win the nomination many years ago. Can Cruz win against a democrat with a tax proposal that is not progressive?

    http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-a-flat-tax-a-good-idea

    If Cruz wins th ...[text shortened]... ion it will basically give Americans 2 choices, a flat tax agenda or a carbon tax agenda. right?
    It does not matter because if Trump does not win the nomination he will go third party and Hillary will win.

    It's all rigged.

    Bernie was right, who knew?
  5. 18 Feb '16 18:13 / 1 edit
    Here is a statement on:
    https://www.tedcruz.org/tax_plan/

    “Imagine 4.9 million new jobs. Instead of Obama’s income stagnation, imagine average wages rising 12.2 percent over the next decade. Capital investment rising 43.9 percent. And every income-level seeing double-digit increases in after-tax income. Imagine exports and manufacturing jobs booming. Our trade deficit falling as the tax bias against American made goods is eliminated. Imagine a 10 percent income tax, with every American filling out his or her taxes on a postcard or iPhone app. And abolishing the IRS as we know it.” – Ted Cruz

    Has any independent analysis been done on these campaign promises? It should include analysis of effects on the housing/real estate market, inheritance and gift taxes, etc.

    I note that capital gains taxation is not discussed.

    Edit:

    I found a detailed analysis at:
    http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-ted-cruz-s-tax-plan
  6. 18 Feb '16 19:57
    Originally posted by JS357
    Here is a statement on:
    https://www.tedcruz.org/tax_plan/

    “Imagine 4.9 million new jobs. Instead of Obama’s income stagnation, imagine average wages rising 12.2 percent over the next decade. Capital investment rising 43.9 percent. And every income-level seeing double-digit increases in after-tax income. Imagine exports and manufacturing jobs booming. Our t ...[text shortened]... analysis at:
    http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-ted-cruz-s-tax-plan
    Yes, it has been analyzed and it's total bollocks, of course. There is no way you can run a modern nation state government with tax revenue that low.
  7. 18 Feb '16 21:08
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Yes, it has been analyzed and it's total bollocks, of course. There is no way you can run a modern nation state government with tax revenue that low.
    The most logical approach would be to create a flat tax model that matches current revenues, then go from there to trim expenses, but the promises Cruz is making are way beyond the flat tax concept.
  8. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    18 Feb '16 21:23
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Yes, it has been analyzed and it's total bollocks, of course. There is no way you can run a modern nation state government with tax revenue that low.
    Yes, otherwise how can they maintain buratcracies like these:

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/30860076/pub-ordered-to-strip-history/
  9. 18 Feb '16 22:06
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    It's not a bad idea combined with a tax-free deduction (or better: a negative income tax bracket) and the abolition of other taxes (state and local). Of course the percentage would have to be higher than what Cruz is proposing.
    That is assuming current spending levels, which many conservatives consider way too high.
  10. 18 Feb '16 22:07
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Yes, it has been analyzed and it's total bollocks, of course. There is no way you can run a modern nation state government with tax revenue that low.
    Perhaps we need a less "modern" government.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    18 Feb '16 22:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    Here is a statement on:
    https://www.tedcruz.org/tax_plan/

    “Imagine 4.9 million new jobs. Instead of Obama’s income stagnation, imagine average wages rising 12.2 percent over the next decade. Capital investment rising 43.9 percent. And every income-level seeing double-digit increases in after-tax income. Imagine exports and manufacturing jobs booming. Our t ...[text shortened]... analysis at:
    http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-ted-cruz-s-tax-plan
    A detailed analysis from a "liberal" group as compared to the "conservative" Tax Foundation.http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000612-an-analysis-of-ted-cruzs-tax-plan.pdf

    Cruz's plan is standard right wing hogwash; a gigantic tax cut for the rich (including eliminating all taxes on inheritances) plus a nice, big fat 16% VAT to "replace" corporate taxes. It would surely blow up the deficit (esp. since he wants huge increases in military spending) unless he and his GOP buddies can get around to gutting Social Security and Medicare (since his plan eliminates the payroll taxes funding them you can bet that would be his next target).
  12. 18 Feb '16 22:46
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    A detailed analysis from a "liberal" group as compared to the "conservative" Tax Foundation.http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000612-an-analysis-of-ted-cruzs-tax-plan.pdf

    Cruz's plan is standard right wing hogwash; a gigantic tax cut for the rich (including eliminating all taxes on inheritances) plus a nice, big fat 16% VAT to "replace" corporat ...[text shortened]... e his plan eliminates the payroll taxes funding them you can bet that would be his next target).
    Anyone with half a brain knows that SS and present government social spending aren't funded for the long term. They run out of money at some time in the future without new taxes. It may well be the less cruel plan to cut people off now, rather than wait to when these programs run out of money, probably at a time when they would be needed most.
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    18 Feb '16 22:51
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Anyone with half a brain knows that SS and present government social spending aren't funded for the long term. They run out of money at some time in the future without new taxes. It may well be the less cruel plan to cut people off now, rather than wait to when these programs run out of money, probably at a time when they would be needed most.
    I'd love for Ted Cruz to tell people THAT.

    It's BS anyway; simply eliminating the income cap would fix any funding problem for the foreseeable future.http://www.npr.org/2013/12/05/249068448/to-fix-social-security-some-democrats-want-to-lift-wage-cap
  14. 18 Feb '16 22:51
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    A detailed analysis from a "liberal" group as compared to the "conservative" Tax Foundation.http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000612-an-analysis-of-ted-cruzs-tax-plan.pdf

    Cruz's plan is standard right wing hogwash; a gigantic tax cut for the rich (including eliminating all taxes on inheritances) plus a nice, big fat 16% VAT to "replace" corporat ...[text shortened]... e his plan eliminates the payroll taxes funding them you can bet that would be his next target).
    Obviously, both liberal and conservative policies have us where we are now, spending a lot more than revenues.

    I'd favor cutting programs, including the military, gradually at first, until we balance the budget, and start paying down the debt. I know this is not practical, because politicians buy votes with programs that benefit their constituencies.
  15. 18 Feb '16 22:53
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I'd love for Ted Cruz to tell people THAT.

    It's BS anyway; simply eliminating the income cap would fix any funding problem for the foreseeable future.http://www.npr.org/2013/12/05/249068448/to-fix-social-security-some-democrats-want-to-lift-wage-cap
    In other words, alter social security to just another welfare program, denying benefits to those awful folks who worked and paid into it for decades, but keeping it to support the laggers.