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  1. 18 Sep '13 19:08 / 1 edit
    http://theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/france-bans-beauty-contests-for-girls

    "France bans beauty contests for girls" (under 16 years old)
    --Kim Willsher (18 September 2013)

    "Don't let us allow our girls to believe from an early age that their only
    value is their looks."
    --Chantal Jouanno

    This may help French girls grow up (more securely) into women, while
    facing less social pressure to conform to unrealistic standards of beauty.

    Please note that the 'Guardian' article has a rather misleading title.
    The ban's not in effect yet; it's been approved by only one of the two
    houses in France's parliament.
  2. 18 Sep '13 19:51
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/france-bans-beauty-contests-for-girls

    "France bans beauty contests for girls" (under 16 years old)
    --Kim Willsher (18 September 2013)

    "Don't let us allow our girls to believe from an early age that their only
    value is their looks."
    --Chantal Jouanno

    This may help French girls grow up (more securely) into women, while
    facing less social pressure to conform to unrealistic standards of beauty.
    My initial reaction is that this is like spitting in the ocean. Are they also planning to ban tv, movies and magazines? I don't like the pressure on girls because I am raising a little girl right now. Who knows what will be normal by the time she's a teenager?

    One other thought. What's wrong with beauty pageants? I personally find them distasteful, but I don't understand the hate. What about athletics? There are plenty of people who suck at athletics and can never reach the standards set by pros? Those are my initial thoughts, anyway. I will pontificate on this while you wait with bated breath.
  3. 18 Sep '13 20:05
    Originally posted by dryhump
    My initial reaction is that this is like spitting in the ocean. Are they also planning to ban tv, movies and magazines? I don't like the pressure on girls because I am raising a little girl right now. Who knows what will be normal by the time she's a teenager?

    One other thought. What's wrong with beauty pageants? I personally find them distasteful, but ...[text shortened]... e my initial thoughts, anyway. I will pontificate on this while you wait with bated breath.
    A difference between athletic competitions and beauty contests is the
    value of training. Through intensive training, an athlete can improve one's
    performance greatly, particularly in a sport that emphasizes technique.
    But there's not that much that a beauty contestant can do to improve
    (apart from undergoing plastic surgery) beyond what nature gave her.
    Yes, I know that an aspiring beauty queen has to learn how to dress the
    part, to walk on stage, and to talk in 'sound bites' without making a fool
    out of herself, but that's trivial compared to serious athletic training.
  4. 18 Sep '13 22:37
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    A difference between athletic competitions and beauty contests is the
    value of training. Through intensive training, an athlete can improve one's
    performance greatly, particularly in a sport that emphasizes technique.
    But there's not that much that a beauty contestant can do to improve
    (apart from undergoing plastic surgery) beyond what nature gave he ...[text shortened]... ut making a fool
    out of herself, but that's trivial compared to serious athletic training.
    There are differences between all types of competitions, from spelling bees, to track and field, to beauty contests, to chess tournaments. I suspect that people who don't like one or the other are those who don't fare well in that type of competition.
  5. 18 Sep '13 23:45
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    A difference between athletic competitions and beauty contests is the
    value of training. Through intensive training, an athlete can improve one's
    performance greatly, particularly in a sport that emphasizes technique.
    But there's not that much that a beauty contestant can do to improve
    (apart from undergoing plastic surgery) beyond what nature gave he ...[text shortened]... ut making a fool
    out of herself, but that's trivial compared to serious athletic training.
    I'm honestly not trying to be antagonistic with this question, but how much time have you spent around beauty pageants and their contestants? My only experience is the movie Miss Congeniality, so i'm no authority. I only know that the women I saw as a kid in the Miss America pageant were amazing.

    One other thing, what's wrong with celebrating someone for their beauty?Think of Stephen Hawking for a minute. We celebrate him because he has superior intellect. Yet he did nothing to earn that brain, it's what he was born with.
  6. 18 Sep '13 23:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I'm honestly not trying to be antagonistic with this question, but how much time have you spent around beauty pageants and their contestants? My only experience is the movie Miss Congeniality, so i'm no authority. I only know that the women I saw as a kid in the Miss America pageant were amazing.

    One other thing, what's wrong with celebrating someone f ...[text shortened]... has superior intellect. Yet he did nothing to earn that brain, it's what he was born with.
    I have spent some time around some young women who aspired to have
    careers (such as fashion models) upon the basis of their physical beauty.

    "Yet he (Stephen Hawking) did nothing to earn that brain, it's what he
    was born with."
    --Dryhump

    When he was born, Stephen Hawking understood nothing of physics.
    He had to work hard (though perhaps less hard than some people) for
    many years in order to learn physics, mathematics, and much else.

    "We celebrate him (Stephen Hawking) because he has superior intellect."
    --Dryhump

    Wrong--Stephen Hawking's *not* 'celebrated' simply because he was born
    with an exceptional brain. Stephen Hawking's been honoured because he
    worked hard to overcome his extreme physical disability and achieve much
    in his scientific field.

    A former neighbour of mine has a brother (now retired) who was one of the
    world's top mathematicians (he won a Fields Medal). She told me that
    she's very proud of what he has accomplished, not what he was born with.
    (I was the second most mathematically gifted person whom she knew.)

    When I was young, my mother told me that she hated my nose's shape,
    and she demanded that I do something to 'improve' it. I did not know
    what I could do about what nature had given me. She demanded that
    I do 'nose exercises', which were supposed to change my nose's shape
    eventually. So I had to pretend that I was doing absurd 'nose exercises'
    in order to appease her. In contrast, I could and did do much to improve
    my mind, though my mother, who was obsessed with my appearance,
    hardly would have noticed that I had a mind at all.
  7. 19 Sep '13 01:12
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I have spent some time around some young women who aspired to have
    careers (such as fashion models) upon the basis of their physical beauty.

    "Yet he (Stephen Hawking) did nothing to earn that brain, it's what he
    was born with."
    --Dryhump

    When he was born, Stephen Hawking understood nothing of physics.
    He had to work hard (though perhaps less har ...[text shortened]... ssed with my appearance,
    hardly would have noticed that I had a mind at all.
    Holy sh@t, nose exercises? That's twisted. I honestly tried to type a response, but I haven't been sleeping well while my wife's out of town so it was pretty incoherent. People have to work with what they have, I guess that's the gist of it. Good night and good luck
  8. 19 Sep '13 01:22
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Holy sh@t, nose exercises? That's twisted. I honestly tried to type a response, but I haven't been sleeping well while my wife's out of town so it was pretty incoherent. People have to work with what they have, I guess that's the gist of it. Good night and good luck
    Funny how parent either believe their children to be the most beautiful creatures on the planet, or an ugly duckling. Usually they are wrong in both cases.
  9. 19 Sep '13 02:00
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Holy sh@t, nose exercises? That's twisted. I honestly tried to type a response, but I haven't been sleeping well while my wife's out of town so it was pretty incoherent. People have to work with what they have, I guess that's the gist of it. Good night and good luck
    I never believed there was anything unusual enough about my nose
    (I am not Cyrano de Bergerac) that needed to be 'improved'. I never
    have considered having plastic surgery. I did grow up being constantly
    told by my parents that I was worthless, repulsive, hopeless in everything
    when, actually, other people (such as some of my teachers) attempted
    to convince my parents that I was exceptionally gifted in many ways.

    No matter how harshly and unfairly I might be criticized at school or
    at work, I knew that I could withstand it because I already had been
    criticized and punished infinitely more harshly and unfairly at home.
  10. 19 Sep '13 12:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I never believed there was anything unusual enough about my nose
    (I am not Cyrano de Bergerac) that needed to be 'improved'. I never
    have considered having plastic surgery. I did grow up being constantly
    told by my parents that I was worthless, repulsive, hopeless in everything
    when, actually, other people (such as some of my teachers) attempted
    to ...[text shortened]... use I already had been
    criticized and punished infinitely more harshly and unfairly at home.
    home should be a loving environment, a place of respite from the world, were your parents carrying out some kind of experiment on you?
  11. 19 Sep '13 14:28
    Originally posted by dryhump
    My initial reaction is that this is like spitting in the ocean. Are they also planning to ban tv, movies and magazines? I don't like the pressure on girls because I am raising a little girl right now. Who knows what will be normal by the time she's a teenager?

    One other thought. What's wrong with beauty pageants? I personally find them distasteful, but ...[text shortened]... e my initial thoughts, anyway. I will pontificate on this while you wait with bated breath.
    Just watch a few minutes of Miley Cirrus and this will be no big deal.
  12. 19 Sep '13 14:29
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    home should be a loving environment, a place of respite from the world, were your parents carrying out some kind of experiment on you?
    Wrong.

    As Hillary Clinton wrote, it takes a village to raise children. What is needed is for the collective society to rear our children for us and prepare them for the roles and jobs that the Fatherland has need of.
  13. 19 Sep '13 14:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Wrong.

    As Hillary Clinton wrote, it takes a village to raise children. What is needed is for the collective society to rear our children for us and prepare them for the roles and jobs that the Fatherland has need of.
    Hillary, poor thing, she needs to be loved. She'll thrive on love like a flower does in sunshine. Perhaps she just appears hard on the outside and like some confectionery is hard on the outside and soft inside.
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    19 Sep '13 18:02
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Hillary, poor thing, she needs to be loved. She'll thrive on love like a flower does in sunshine. Perhaps she just appears hard on the outside and like some confectionery is hard on the outside and soft inside.
    Just like Maggie Thatcher.
  15. 19 Sep '13 18:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Just like Maggie Thatcher.
    No, Mrs Thatcher was loathed for good reason, she destroyed communities and implemented a disastrous economic policy that brought interest rates to around 15% if my memory serves me correctly. But enough of her, shes dead already! Mrs Clinton lives. btw I was thinking about your theory on Anglo Saxons, wasn't it the Romans who started off war and killing as a form of entertainment. Certainly the Celts and Vikings could settle disputes by the sword, in fact, up until Rob Roy McGregors time in my own country, the rule of the sword was legitimate, but i don't think it was done for entertainment value, that was Roman.