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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    19 Jun '09 21:17
    http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2009/06/18/des-deputes-ouvrent-le-debat-sur-le-port-de-la-burqa_1208273_3224.html

    The burqa: a normal expression of religiousness or a tool of female oppression?
  2. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    19 Jun '09 21:33
    The palynka: a normal expression of ridiculousness or a just a tool?
  3. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    19 Jun '09 21:47
    Originally posted by uzless
    The palynka: a normal expression of ridiculousness or a just a tool?
    Yes.
  4. Standard member leestatic
    Hristos voskrese
    19 Jun '09 22:48
    Originally posted by Palynka
    http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2009/06/18/des-deputes-ouvrent-le-debat-sur-le-port-de-la-burqa_1208273_3224.html

    The burqa: a normal expression of religiousness or a tool of female oppression?
    All ugly ass women should be made to wear one!
  5. 20 Jun '09 00:07
    Originally posted by Palynka
    http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2009/06/18/des-deputes-ouvrent-le-debat-sur-le-port-de-la-burqa_1208273_3224.html

    The burqa: a normal expression of religiousness or a tool of female oppression?
    So why can't it be both an expression of religiousness AND a tool of female oppression?
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    20 Jun '09 01:11
    Originally posted by Palynka
    The burqa...
    The burqa: a normal expression of religiousness or a tool of female oppression?

    This is a question that has to be answered by women who wear burqas. If they see it as a tool that is being used to oppress them, then they should take them off when away from their families, or they should leave their families while getting whatever support from the state as is given to victims of domestic violence - halfway house, counselling etc., if necessary. A whole load of that kind of thing happening would soon see the popularity of the burqa plummet. If the women see their burqa as a normal expression of their religiousness, then they should be able to wear it wherever and whenever they want. "France" should not be discussing the banning of the burqa, except strictly within the terms of reference I have set, and as long as it reaches the same conclusion as me.
  7. Standard member leestatic
    Hristos voskrese
    20 Jun '09 01:17
    Why do they wear burqas? I've heard it's because no mans allowed to set eyes on them if so that sounds oppressive to me.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    20 Jun '09 01:27
    Originally posted by leestatic
    Why do they wear burqas? I've heard it's because no mans allowed to set eyes on them if so that sounds oppressive to me.
    I personally think that burqas are utterly cringeworthy. Nobody I know wears one but many do wear jilbaab which cover the hair and frame the face with cloth (looking a little bit like a Catholic nun). The question is: If a burqa "sounds oppressive" to you, does that mean it should be banned?
  9. 20 Jun '09 09:37
    i like this idea for the new law:
    if a woman wears it, her husband should have to wear one too !
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    20 Jun '09 09:57
    Originally posted by eamon o
    i like this idea for the new law:
    if a woman wears it, her husband should have to wear one too !
    So you're discussing FORCING people to wear burqas. I deduce that you are not French, then.
  11. 20 Jun '09 10:54
    I don't think question about burqa *is* about religion. The burqa is a political method to opress women and blame religion. In the name of religion you can do whatever you like. It's not religion per se.

    To use burqa is okay if they want to do it. If they are forced to use burqa, it is opression.
  12. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    20 Jun '09 10:58
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I don't think question about burqa *is* about religion. The burqa is a political method to opress women and blame religion. In the name of religion you can do whatever you like. It's not religion per se.

    To use burqa is okay if they want to do it. If they are forced to use burqa, it is opression.
    What about the burqa of socialised die while you wait healthcare.

    People shouldn't be forced into that either.
  13. 20 Jun '09 11:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    What about the burqa of socialised die while you wait healthcare.

    People shouldn't be forced into that either.
    Right, but this has nothing to do with religion.

    Those who say okay with burqa oftenly says "Don't touch my religion!" I say "Bah! It's not religion!"
  14. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    20 Jun '09 11:47
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]The burqa: a normal expression of religiousness or a tool of female oppression?

    This is a question that has to be answered by women who wear burqas. If they see it as a tool that is being used to oppress them, then they should take them off when away from their families, or they should leave their families while getting whatever support from the state ...[text shortened]... within the terms of reference I have set, and as long as it reaches the same conclusion as me.[/b]
    I definitely agree. I think the state should offer protection to those who may find it hard to escape their situation by themselves, instead of forcing the issue. However, this question is borderline enough to make me question myself. Let me play a bit of devil's advocate to keep the ball rolling.

    One of the problems of the burqa is that it excludes the woman from many activities, which range from schooling (after they start to wear it) to having a normal job. This severely limits the woman's ability to be independent enough to be able to sustain herself if she decides to fight it. I imagine that just leaving the house one day without a job, education or a place to live in, all while facing probably contempt and anger of her community. Even friends who are in similar positions may be afraid or unable to help.

    In short, it's true that it can be a tool to perpetuate female oppression by putting them in a vicious cycle of dependence. Historically, there is the example of Turkey where Ataturk's much decision (banning of not just face-covering headscarves) can be said to have had a non-negligible impact on the role of women in Turkish society, particularly in places like Istanbul where the ban was truly enforced. There seems to be increased tension lately because of Erdogan's attempts to lift the ban and subsequent overturning by the supreme court, but the large manifestations that followed the initial decision to ban them show that there are many women who still feel the need for this type of state protection.
  15. 20 Jun '09 12:35
    Do they serve burqas with frites over there in Frenchland?