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Debates Forum

  1. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    15 Mar '19 19:41
    The real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets
    today is the immigration program which allowed Muslim
    fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place.


    I could hardly believe this, someone thinking this is
    extraordinary, someone publicly saying this is almost
    unbelievable, a politician announcing this is dangerous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/australian-senator-fraser-anning-criticised-blaming-new-zealand-attack-on-muslim-immigration

    Fraser Anning presumably blames women
    for rape and children for pedophiles?
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    15 Mar '19 20:041 edit
    @wolfgang59 said
    The real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets
    today is the immigration program which allowed Muslim
    fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place.


    I could hardly believe this, someone thinking this is
    extraordinary, someone publicly saying this is almost
    unbelievable, a politician announcing this is dangerous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/wor ...[text shortened]... -muslim-immigration

    Fraser Anning presumably blames women
    for rape and children for pedophiles?
    Wow, Australia has idiots in their govwrnment, too. Who knew?
  3. Subscriberdivegeester
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    15 Mar '19 20:07
    @suzianne said
    Wow, Australia has idiots in their govwrnment, too. Who knew?
    New Zealand.
  4. Subscriberdivegeester
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    15 Mar '19 20:13
    @wolfgang59 said
    The real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets
    today is the immigration program which allowed Muslim
    fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place.


    I could hardly believe this, someone thinking this is
    extraordinary, someone publicly saying this is almost
    unbelievable, a politician announcing this is dangerous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/wor ...[text shortened]... -muslim-immigration

    Fraser Anning presumably blames women
    for rape and children for pedophiles?
    Your country, it’s people, the government are going to have to manage some increasingly complex social and political challenges from now on, because of this backdrop I mean.

    However despite what happened yesterday you may be surprised (albeit somewhat uncomfortably) in the coming months to find that your world hasn't changed too much.
  5. Zugzwang
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    15 Mar '19 22:031 edit
    @suzianne said
    Wow, Australia has idiots in their govwrnment, too. Who knew?
    (Suzianne replied to Wolfgang59.)

    Australia has a long history of racism in government, ranging from its oppression
    of its indigenous people to its 'White Australia' immigration policy.

    Has Suzianne heard of the notorious racist Australian politician Pauline Hanson?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson
  6. Standard membershavixmir
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    16 Mar '19 11:58
    @divegeester said
    New Zealand.
    Na, he’s an Aussie.
    Nothing like an Aussie blaming immigrant moslims for being shot by an Aussie in New Zealand.
  7. Subscriberkmax87
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    16 Mar '19 13:49
    @divegeester said
    Your country, it’s people, the government are going to have to manage some increasingly complex social and political challenges from now on, because of this backdrop I mean.

    However despite what happened yesterday you may be surprised (albeit somewhat uncomfortably) in the coming months to find that your world hasn't changed too much.
    Yes. NZ will get gun laws similar to OZ and get tougher screening rules for local flights and in ten years time they will remember it the way we remember the Port Arthur massacre...ie:- not much. not much at all.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    16 Mar '19 14:501 edit
    @kmax87 said
    Yes. NZ will get gun laws similar to OZ and get tougher screening rules for local flights and in ten years time they will remember it the way we remember the Port Arthur massacre...ie:- not much. not much at all.
    This is easier when your politicians aren't in the pocket of the gun manufacturers and/or the NRA.

    This is why the USSC should overturn the Citizens United decision. But with a packed court, this is near impossible.

    This is what I meant when I said I hope NZ can run their government better than the US runs theirs.
  9. Zugzwang
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    16 Mar '19 15:42
    @kmax87 said
    Yes. NZ will get gun laws similar to OZ and get tougher screening rules for local flights and in ten years time they will remember it the way we remember the Port Arthur massacre...ie:- not much. not much at all.
    I expect that New Zealand's Muslims will remember the 2019 Christchurch
    mosque massacre longer than Kmax87 will.
  10. Subscriberkmax87
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    16 Mar '19 23:55
    @duchess64 said
    I expect that New Zealand's Muslims will remember the 2019 Christchurch
    mosque massacre longer than Kmax87 will.
    Much like the families of the Port Arthur victims still remember everyday their tragic loss. Your point?
  11. Zugzwang
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    17 Mar '19 00:45
    @kmax87 said
    Much like the families of the Port Arthur victims still remember everyday their tragic loss. Your point?
    "I expect that New Zealand's Muslims will remember the 2019 Christchurch
    mosque massacre longer than Kmax87 will."
    --Duchess64

    I expect that most of New Zealand's Muslims are NOT 'family members'
    of anyone who was murdered in Christchurch.

    My point is that people tend to assign more or less value to a victim's
    death depending upon one's identity and status and their prejudices.

    Another point is that this mass murder was evidently motivated by the
    hatred of a community or a religion, not a set of random individuals.
    That's different from the murders in Port Arthur.
  12. Subscriberkmax87
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    17 Mar '19 05:202 edits
    @duchess64 said
    "I expect that New Zealand's Muslims will remember the 2019 Christchurch
    mosque massacre longer than Kmax87 will."
    --Duchess64

    I expect that most of New Zealand's Muslims are NOT 'family members'
    of anyone who was murdered in Christchurch.

    My point is that people tend to assign more or less value to a victim's
    death depending upon one's identity and status and t ...[text shortened]... y or a religion, not a set of random individuals.
    That's different from the murders in Port Arthur.
    Go on then I love it when you nitpick tragedy.

    It is an all too human attribute to value people according to our innate biases and prejudices. That's not a profound conclusion in the least.

    A luxury cruise runs aground and 35 wealthy retirees drown vs a school bus full of primary school children is involved in a railway crossing collision, and 35 children between the ages of 7 and 10 die at the scene.

    Are you going to feel the same sense of tragedy and loss in both occasions? And are you going to score debating points on your analysis why certain people would respond differently to either tragedy?

    As always your critique says more about you than your target.
  13. Subscriberkmax87
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    17 Mar '19 05:25
    @Duchess64

    And the Forum Malcontent Award, 7 years running goes to......
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    17 Mar '19 09:18
    @suzianne said
    Wow, Australia has idiots in their govwrnment, too. Who knew?
    Here he is being egged by a student.
    YouTube

    Several thugs beat down the boy.
    The Police took the boy away...........
  15. Zugzwang
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    17 Mar '19 17:092 edits
    @kmax87 said
    Go on then I love it when you nitpick tragedy.

    It is an all too human attribute to value people according to our innate biases and prejudices. That's not a profound conclusion in the least.

    A luxury cruise runs aground and 35 wealthy retirees drown vs a school bus full of primary school children is involved in a railway crossing collision, and 35 children between the age ...[text shortened]... pond differently to either tragedy?

    As always your critique says more about you than your target.
    "Another point is that this mass murder [in Christchurch] was evidently motivated
    by the hatred of a community or a religion, not a set of random individuals.
    That's different from the murders in Port Arthur."
    --Duchess64

    Kmax87 has refused to concede this point, perhaps because admitting that there's
    common hatred of Muslims in Australia (where the alleged murderer grew up)
    makes him feel too uncomfortable.

    If these murders had taken place at a synagogue, would Kmax87 argue that the
    crimes were not motivated by anti-Semitism but only by a desire to shoot random
    strangers in a public place?

    If I recall correctly, New Zealand's Prime Minister has called the Christchurch murders 'terrorism'.
    Did Australia's Prime Minister refer to the Port Arthur murders as 'terrorism'?
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