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Debates Forum

  1. 25 May '13 15:53
    Ahead of the protests, Northumbria Police have arrested three men, two from Gateshead and one from Stockton, on suspicion of posting racist tweets.


    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/471216/20130525/anti-muslim-woolwich-beheading-lee-rigby-english.htm

    How long ago did the UK government take the citizens' right to freedom of speech?

    It is a common statement here in the US that although I disagree with what you say, I will die to protect your right to express your opinion/belief. Evidently this is not so in the UK, has it always been this way?
  2. 25 May '13 16:39
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]Ahead of the protests, Northumbria Police have arrested three men, two from Gateshead and one from Stockton, on suspicion of posting racist tweets.


    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/471216/20130525/anti-muslim-woolwich-beheading-lee-rigby-english.htm

    How long ago did the UK government take the citizens' right to freedom of speech?

    It is a ...[text shortened]... express your opinion/belief. Evidently this is not so in the UK, has it always been this way?[/b]
    it is illegal to incite religious hatred or violence in the u.k. which seems very sensible to me. europe has seen the horrors of what can happen when racism runs unchecked. we will not let it happen again.

    NO PASARAN!!!
  3. 25 May '13 16:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    it is illegal to incite religious hatred or violence in the u.k. which seems very sensible to me. europe has seen the horrors of what can happen when racism runs unchecked. we will not let it happen again.

    [b]NO PASARAN!!!
    [/b]
    In the US we have a saying:

    "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me."

    People can say what they want, but that does not justify you responding in physical force. Anyone who thinks that 'inciting' is evil is simply immature. Grow up and let people say what they want, then dismiss their words if you disagree with them. Do not enable evil actions of the immature.

    That's the difference between freedom and tyranny.
  4. 25 May '13 17:56
    Originally posted by Eladar
    In the US we have a saying:

    "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me."

    People can say what they want, but that does not justify you responding in physical force. Anyone who thinks that 'inciting' is evil is simply immature. Grow up and let people say what they want, then dismiss their words if you disagree with them. Do no ...[text shortened]... enable evil actions of the immature.

    That's the difference between freedom and tyranny.
    yeah, we all have that saying. although in the u.k. its used by children as simple lesson. adults tend to know things are a bit more complicated than that.

    the reason being. name calling doesnt cause physical pain, but as shown over and over again through history that eventually the name calling can lead to physical violence.

    one racist man on his own may not be dangerous, if he is free to spout his racism then he may attract like minded people, then we end up with exponential growth and before you no it every body is parading around in white robes setting fire to black people, or marching around europe popping jews into gas chambers.

    immaturity is you looking at inciting violence and the actual violence as two completely separate things.


    question for you - are your teachers free to say racist things at school?
  5. 25 May '13 18:01
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    yeah, we all have that saying. although in the u.k. its used by children as simple lesson. adults tend to know things are a bit more complicated than that.

    the reason being. name calling doesnt cause physical pain, but as shown over and over again through history that eventually the name calling can lead to physical violence.

    one racist man on his ...[text shortened]... separate things.


    question for you - are your teachers free to say racist things at school?
    Adults who know that things aren't as simple as that are simply enablers. Punish the people who act violently. It is as simple as that.

    Telling people they have a right to act violently because of what people say is simply enabling evil people.

    If those people in white robes hang blacks, then put those people in white robes on trial for murder. Murder is murder.

    As for teachers, as long as it the right kind of racist remark, then it is acceptable. If it offends the wrong group, then it isn't allowed.
  6. 25 May '13 18:02
    Not sure what these people were tweeting exactly, but being a racist or voicing racist opinions surely shouldn't be illegal.
  7. 25 May '13 18:15 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Adults who know that things aren't as simple as that are simply enablers. Punish the people who act violently. It is as simple as that.

    Telling people they have a right to act violently because of what people say is simply enabling evil people.

    If those people in white robes hang blacks, then put those people in white robes on trial for murder. Murde ...[text shortened]... f racist remark, then it is acceptable. If it offends the wrong group, then it isn't allowed.
    can you imagine being part of a minority group who are being targeted for abuse by organised groups. can you imagine having a young family and feeling scared to let your children play out, because you know that eventually the hate and bile is going to bubble over into violence. how would you feel if the police couldnt do anything until after your child or wife had been beaten or killed? i bet if you were in that situation you would be on the phone to the police before the violence started.


    if you have kids and their teacher was seen at a kkk meeting shouting racist comments would you be upset if the school fire him/her?
  8. 25 May '13 18:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Not sure what these people were tweeting exactly, but being a racist or voicing racist opinions surely shouldn't be illegal.
    its not illegal to be racist in the u.k. its illegal to use language that could incite race or religious hate. we have racist political parties like the bnp, but they choose their words carefully to avoid breaking the law.


    antisemitism in germany is illegal - does anybody have a problem with that? would you defend the right of a fascist in germany to have total freedom of speech?
  9. 25 May '13 18:20
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    can you imagine being part of a minority group who are being targeted for abuse by organised groups. can you imagine having a young family and feeling scared to let your children play out, because you know that eventually the hate and bile is going to bubble over into violence. how would you feel if the police couldnt do anything until after your child ...[text shortened]... as seen at a kkk meeting shouting racist comments would you be upset if the school fire him/her?
    If things are going to spill into violence, then you are living in the wrong area. Find some other place to live where people are not violent. If you can't get out of that area, then supervise your kids, perhaps home school your children.

    I have kids. I home school them, so I'm their teacher. We do with less so that we can have a greater impact on the lives of our children, as opposed to those who put their time into other things. My wife did it for many years, but now that the kids are high school age, I'm more qualified to teach and I enjoy not having to go to work every morning.
  10. 25 May '13 18:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    its not illegal to be racist in the u.k. its illegal to use language that could incite race or religious hate. we have racist political parties like the bnp, but they choose their words carefully to avoid breaking the law.
    So as long as a group is willing to act up because they are being insulted, then they get protection from hurtful words.

    Nice.

    Evil people get protection while good people get none.
  11. 25 May '13 18:28
    Originally posted by Eladar
    If things are going to spill into violence, then you are living in the wrong area. Find some other place to live where people are not violent. If you can't get out of that area, then supervise your kids, perhaps home school your children.

    I have kids. I home school them, so I'm their teacher. We do with less so that we can have a greater impact on the ...[text shortened]... chool age, I'm more qualified to teach and I enjoy not having to go to work every morning.
    so a 3rd generation muslim in england who has lived in the same town all his life, who's family and friends live near by all have to up and move because the they have been targeted by racists yobs?

    you cannot supervise your children all day, you cannot protect your wife all day, you cannot protect yourself from large groups of neo-nazi yobs. people need to live, go to work, play in parks, go to shops and have a life they should have the freedom to do these things with out facing physical intimidation on a day to day basis.

    so their freedom is denied by supporting the freedom of the aggressor.

    ill ask this question again -

    antisemitism is illegal in germany. would you defend the rights of a neo-nazi's freedom of speech in germany?
  12. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    25 May '13 18:30
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    would you defend the right of a fascist in germany to have total freedom of speech?
    yes
  13. 25 May '13 18:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    so a 3rd generation muslim in england who has lived in the same town all his life, who's family and friends live near by all have to up and move because the they have been targeted by racists yobs?

    you cannot supervise your children all day, you cannot protect your wife all day, you cannot protect yourself from large groups of neo-nazi yobs. people n ...[text shortened]... illegal in germany. would you defend the rights of a neo-nazi's freedom of speech in germany?
    Personally, I'd carry a gun if I felt so unsafe.

    If my government can't protect me from physical violence, then I'd move to an area where it could. I would even move to another country, especially if I was a result of recent immigration where my values are totally different from the society in which I live.

    Yes, I'd support the right of neo nazis to speak freely in Germany.
  14. 25 May '13 18:33
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    yes
    would you have no concerns regarding history repeating itself?
  15. 25 May '13 18:36
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Personally, I'd carry a gun if I felt so unsafe.

    If my government can't protect me from physical violence, then I'd move to an area where it could. I would even move to another country, especially if I was a result of recent immigration where my values are totally different from the society in which I live.
    i gun doesnt provide you or your family with a magic force-field.


    so where would you move if you were a gay, white, muslim?