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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 08 Aug '09 20:50 / 2 edits
    This thread was inspired by another thread in which I asked USArmyparatrooper the question, why is giving people freedom a moral thing to do? He implied that freedom was the basis for his morality. In fact, it is the #1 thing to consider when discussing laws imposed by the state according to him. So is this the basis for your morality as well, or is it something else? If it is, then why should it be used as the basis for our moratlity? If it is not, then what is the basis for your morality? Of course, I got no answer from him on the first try, but perhaps I will the second go round.
  2. 08 Aug '09 20:51
    The basis for my morality is providing the means for enabling people to live happy and fulfilling lives.
  3. 08 Aug '09 20:51
    Originally posted by whodey
    This thread was inspired by another thread in which I asked USArmyparatrooper the question, why is giving people freedom a moral thing to do? He implied that freedom was the basis for his morality. In fact, it is the #1 thing to consider when discussing laws imposed by the state. So is this the basis for your morality as well, or is it something else? If ...[text shortened]... ? Of course, I got no answer from him on the first try, but perhaps I will the second go round.
    Completely strawman. I did NOT imply that freedom is the basis of morality.

    I said the basis of FREEDOM is that people are allowed to live by their own moral compass, so long as their actions don't harm others.
  4. 08 Aug '09 20:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The basis for my morality is providing the means for enabling people to live happy and fulfilling lives.
    Can we seperate living happy and fulfilling lives and their freedoms? In addition, to what extent must we "enable" people to pursue hapiness?
  5. 08 Aug '09 20:55
    Originally posted by whodey
    This thread was inspired by another thread in which I asked USArmyparatrooper the question, why is giving people freedom a moral thing to do? He implied that freedom was the basis for his morality. In fact, it is the #1 thing to consider when discussing laws imposed by the state according to him. So is this the basis for your morality as well, or is it som ...[text shortened]... ? Of course, I got no answer from him on the first try, but perhaps I will the second go round.
    Catholicism.
  6. 08 Aug '09 20:55
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Completely strawman. I did NOT imply that freedom is the basis of morality.

    I said the basis of FREEDOM is that people are allowed to live by their own moral compass, so long as their actions don't harm others.
    But do you not agree with freedom being the driving force of your own moral compass? If not, what is it?

    In addition, when you say so long as it does not "harm others", I suppose it depends on what your definition of harm is. I don't think everyone would agree.
  7. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    08 Aug '09 20:55
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The basis for my morality is providing the means for enabling people to live happy and fulfilling lives.
    In a free society you can 'provide' and 'enable' all you like, you just cannot force your fantasies on others.
  8. 08 Aug '09 20:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    In a free society you can 'provide' and 'enable' all you like, you just cannot force your fantasies on others.
    Ideally, at least if people aren't breaking the law.
  9. 08 Aug '09 20:56
    Originally posted by daniel58
    Catholicism.
    So the basis for his moral compass is Catholicism? What about you?
  10. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    08 Aug '09 20:57
    Originally posted by daniel58
    Ideally, at least if people aren't breaking the law.
    So that is what we work towards, and it starts by putting the brakes on growing gummint.
  11. 08 Aug '09 20:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    But do you not agree with freedom being the driving force of your own moral compass? If not, what is it?

    In addition, when you say so long as it does not "harm others", I suppose it depends on what your definition of harm is. I don't think everyone would agree.
    No, I do not believe that freedom is the driving force behind my views on morality. For me personally it's logic and reason combined with a consideration for others.
  12. 08 Aug '09 20:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    Can we seperate living happy and fulfilling lives and their freedoms? In addition, to what extent must we "enable" people to pursue hapiness?
    Not fully, it must be accepted that one person can not have maximum freedom if one is to maximize the total freedom of all individuals in a society. For example, banning rape lowers the freedom of rapists but increases the freedom of the collective.
  13. 08 Aug '09 21:02 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    No, I do not believe that freedom is the driving force behind my views on morality. For me personally it's logic and reason combined with a consideration for others.
    So your morality has nothing to do with Catholicism as daniel charged or freedom which I assumed? Very well. So for the record, your morality is governed by your own logic and reason which is combined with a consideration for others.

    Having said that, how can freedom be divorced from the ability to set your own moral compass as well as how you treat others? It seems to me that the two issues are inseperable.
  14. 08 Aug '09 21:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Not fully, it must be accepted that one person can not have maximum freedom if one is to maximize the total freedom of all individuals in a society. For example, banning rape lowers the freedom of rapists but increases the freedom of the collective.
    I think a better way of summing it up is, to do unto others as you would have them do to you. How does that sound?
  15. 08 Aug '09 21:08
    Originally posted by whodey
    I think a better way of summing it up is, to do unto others as you would have them do to you. How does that sound?
    Hey that was the golden rule. Now the golden rule is whomever has the gold rules.