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  1. 30 Oct '11 14:05 / 1 edit
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/are-college-degrees-hindering-innovations-this-author-thinks-so/

    Michael Ellsber, who recently published, "The Educaiton of Millionaires: It's Not What You Think and It's Not Too Late", believes today's college graduates, current undergraduates, and high school students, don't realize the potential they have to find or create a job for themselves. Ellsberg writes that the "system" has taught people to think that a college degree leads to success and more wealth. As it stands now, college graduates do make more money on average than those without a college degree, but the gap is closing quickly.

    Consider these facts:

    1. unemployment for college graduates between the ages of 20 and 24 was at 12% in June.
    2. Tuition rates have increased over 500% since 1999 with no signs of slowing down.
    3. Student debt is expected to eclipse $1 trillion by the end of the year, exceeding the nation's credit card debt.

    "If you have invested 16 years in your life and you find that the only thing you can do with your human capital is work at Starbucks then you think, 'maybe I was fed a lie'. Simply put, from K-college you learn very few skills or attitudes that would ever help start a business. Skills like sales, networking, creativity and comfort with failure are but a few lacking in liberal academia. No business in America - and therefore no job creation - happens without someone buying something. But most students learn nothing about sales in college, they are more likely to take a course on why sales (and captilism) are evil.

    Let's face it, by in large college is a financial decision, therefore, how much longer will the populace buy into the notion that they must mortgage their financial lives away to attend higher education when they realize that once they graduate they will not have the financial means to pay back such debt? Sure, college is a vehicle for learning, but what is the cost of learning? It is mere supply and demand.


    According to Ellsberg, the vast majority of students in college are being trained for middle management jobs that just don't exist anymore. In the 1950's, when the current educational system came into its current form, there was a shortage of middle management jobs, but everything is turned on its head now. Corporations are downsizing, replacing middle managers with software or an organizational man in India. In fact, the Ellsberg himself says that his graduate degree has nothing to do with what he does for a living now.
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Oct '11 14:23
    What is it you propose, whodey? Is there something you want to debate?
  3. Standard member mikelom
    Ajarn
    30 Oct '11 14:34
    I agree in principle with 99% of what is written here.

    I do however contest the 'reason'/s for pursuing a degree(in large), as I think (IMHO) that many students take on the higher curriculum because 'they are expected to'?

    I don't use neither my B.A., nor my M.A., for what I do now, but I did for 20 years, initially, as I chose to pursue both for the specific areas of work I closed in on.

    They have stood me in good stead for a later change in career, however.

    I do know one thing from my own experiences in both my ownstarting out and as an eventual manager:
    1. Graduates know little about the true requirements of their field, when holding their newly earned paper.
    2. All graduates need deep re-training to cope in the fields of reality.
    3. I'd sooner choose a person with solid experience who hasn't necessarily obtained a degree but has displayed deep wisdom and excellence in his/her field, over a graduate who hasn't displayed the same (easy choice, of course).
    4. Obtaining a degree does not, nowadays, prove committment and seeing things thru 'til the end (as it used to represent).
    5. Having a degree doesn't mean you are highly educated or automatically entitled to a position over a non-degree holder; again in today's world.

    Just a few humble notes of mine.

    -m.
  4. 30 Oct '11 14:42
    Originally posted by FMF
    What is it you propose, whodey? Is there something you want to debate?
    Why do politicians like Obama only concern themselves with getting loans to college students or having tax payers flip the bill for them instead of the insane rising costs of higher education? Also, could they be paing into a failing system?
  5. 30 Oct '11 14:45
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/are-college-degrees-hindering-innovations-this-author-thinks-so/

    Michael Ellsber, who recently published, "The Educaiton of Millionaires: It's Not What You Think and It's Not Too Late", believes today's college graduates, current undergraduates, and high school students, don't realize the potential they have to find or creat ...[text shortened]... ys that his graduate degree has nothing to do with what he does for a living now.
    But most students learn nothing about sales in college, they are more likely to take a course on why sales (and captilism) are evil.

    Haha. I can't believe you take this website seriously, whodey. Well actually, I can, but it saddens me that someone would. Is there really any college that would teach a course on why "sales (and captilism [sic])" are evil or anything remotely close to it?

    By the way, I learned nothing about "sales" and have lots of skills that are useful to business.
  6. 30 Oct '11 14:56
    Originally posted by mikelom
    I agree in principle with 99% of what is written here.

    I do however contest the 'reason'/s for pursuing a degree(in large), as I think (IMHO) that many students take on the higher curriculum because 'they are expected to'?

    I don't use neither my B.A., nor my M.A., for what I do now, but I did for 20 years, initially, as I chose to pursue both for the s ...[text shortened]... non-degree holder; again in today's world.

    Just a few humble notes of mine.

    -m.
    But you graduated in a different era. Try graduating today before getting established. In today's market your degree needs to pinpoint the area you wish to pursue. You can't just get some liberal arts degree and expect to go anywhere anymore.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Oct '11 14:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why do politicians like Obama only concern themselves with getting loans to college students or having tax payers flip the bill for them instead of the insane rising costs of higher education? Also, could they be paing into a failing system?
    What do you propose, whodey? Perhaps you could propose something and then see if it can be debated.
  8. 30 Oct '11 14:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    [b]But most students learn nothing about sales in college, they are more likely to take a course on why sales (and captilism) are evil.

    Haha. I can't believe you take this website seriously, whodey. Well actually, I can, but it saddens me that someone would. Is there really any college that would teach a course on why "sales (and captilism [sic]) e way, I learned nothing about "sales" and have lots of skills that are useful to business.[/b]
    What does the web site have to do with the price of Tea in China?

    I grow weary of the "unbiased new outlet" arguments. Such adherence to political correctness is what saddens me. Either the information is true of false. Who cares where the information came from? Do you object to any provided so far?
  9. 30 Oct '11 15:01
    Originally posted by FMF
    What do you propose, whodey? Perhaps you could propose something and then see if it can be debated.
    I would propose that throwing tax payer money at higher education could be considered merely patronizing political allies. This needs to stop.

    After that, the sky is the limit FMF. In this economic environment EVERYONE needs to be put under the microscope.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Oct '11 15:04
    Originally posted by whodey
    What does the web site have to do with the price of Tea in China?
    You've often had to distance yourself from articles you've taken from the http://www.theblaze.com web site because you've been unable to argue the article's corner, or the thread has ground to a halt before the page's end because the premise is daft or whatever. It's not that the web site has or doesn't have something to do with the price of Tea in China
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    30 Oct '11 15:06 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    I would propose that throwing tax payer money at higher education could be considered merely patronizing political allies. This needs to stop.

    After that, the sky is the limit FMF. In this economic environment EVERYONE needs to be put under the microscope.
    You want to see more people or less people entering higher education? You want some kind of litmus test so that "political allies" you don't approve of don't get to go to college? What is it you propose exactly?
  12. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    30 Oct '11 15:12
    Higher education is nothing more than a modern, gentler version of slavery. People put themselves tens of thousands of dollars in debt chasing after jobs that do not exist.
  13. 30 Oct '11 15:42
    Originally posted by whodey
    I would propose that throwing tax payer money at higher education could be considered merely patronizing political allies. This needs to stop.

    After that, the sky is the limit FMF. In this economic environment EVERYONE needs to be put under the microscope.
    So your proposal is to fully privatize higher education (including abolishing student loans etc.). What exactly will that accomplish?
  14. 30 Oct '11 17:21
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    [b]But most students learn nothing about sales in college, they are more likely to take a course on why sales (and captilism) are evil.

    Haha. I can't believe you take this website seriously, whodey. Well actually, I can, but it saddens me that someone would. Is there really any college that would teach a course on why "sales (and captilism [sic]) ...[text shortened]... e way, I learned nothing about "sales" and have lots of skills that are useful to business.[/b]
    "By the way, I learned nothing about "sales" and have lots of skills that are useful to business."

    Of course varied skill sets are required, but in the end if nobody sells the product, the business fails. The catalogues of most modern US universities are full of "fluff" courses that are patently useless in business.
    A lot of them do promote anti capitalist and anti business ideals.
  15. 30 Oct '11 17:24
    Originally posted by FMF
    You've often had to distance yourself from articles you've taken from the http://www.theblaze.com web site because you've been unable to argue the article's corner, or the thread has ground to a halt before the page's end because the premise is daft or whatever. It's not that the web site has or doesn't have something to do with the price of Tea in China
    Sorry, but you are attempting to hijack a legitimate thread, by undermining whodey's credentials as a poster. Why not simply deal with the premise or just ignore it?