Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 19 May '09 18:27 / 2 edits
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124268952606832391.html

    (extract from the text)

    WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration has decided to accept an appeals-court ruling that could undermine the military's ban on service members found to be gay.


    The decision comes as President Barack Obama attempts a balancing act on gay rights. He was elected with strong support from the gay community and promised action on a number of issues. But mindful of the complex politics, the White House has moved slowly.

    U turn?

    The "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which dates back to the Clinton administration, is a case in point. As one of his first acts as president in 1993, Bill Clinton attempted to end the military's ban on service by homosexuals. An uproar ensued, and eventually Mr. Clinton signed legislation allowing gays to serve as long as they weren't open about their sexual preference.

    which was fair.


    unfortunately I haven't got time to put the rest of the article.
    but anyway, any thoughts on this?
  2. 19 May '09 18:49
    Why shouldn't openly gay people be allowed in the military?
  3. Standard member Seitse
    Doug Stanhope
    19 May '09 18:52
    Nobody should be alllowed in the military.

    There should be no military in the whole world.
  4. 19 May '09 19:18
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    The "don't ask, don't tell" policy, which dates back to the Clinton administration, is a case in point. As one of his first acts as president in 1993, Bill Clinton attempted to end the military's ban on service by homosexuals. An uproar ensued, and eventually Mr. Clinton signed legislation allowing gays to serve as long as they weren't open about their sexual preference.

    which was fair.
    How was the don't ask don't tell policy fair?

    How is it fair to allow some people to serve and be open about who they are, but not allow others?

    As it is if someone simply says "I'm gay" then that's enough to discharge them and that's not fair.
  5. 19 May '09 21:17
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Why shouldn't openly gay people be allowed in the military?
    so if someone wants to leave the military, they just need to act gay?
  6. 19 May '09 21:36
    have always thought it's a bit like saying no gay priests. I think there must be lots of gays in the military, just very closeted ones ... don't wish to be rude but suspect its the case . Think the 'out and proud ' identity' sometimes associated with gay blokes might clash tho .
  7. 19 May '09 22:10
    Originally posted by Black Star Uchess
    have always thought it's a bit like saying no gay priests. I think there must be lots of gays in the military, just very closeted ones ... don't wish to be rude but suspect its the case . Think the 'out and proud ' identity' sometimes associated with gay blokes might clash tho .
    Everyone knows that there are gay people in the military. They just serve as well as anyone else, except they can't actually tell anyone that one fact about themselves.

    I think most, if not all, gay people who serve in the military are professional and honorable enough to comport themselves professionally even if they are allowed to come out of the closet.
  8. 20 May '09 03:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Why shouldn't openly gay people be allowed in the military?
    Unless the military has changed since I was serving, soldiers are required to shower together. I wouldn't feel comfortable with some dude staring at my gun. The poor devil that has to share a foxhole with a gay may get some undeserved ridicule as well. I would hate to have to depend on someone watching my back in combat that thinks he is a woman in a mans body. Comraderie just wouldn't be there regardless of who has what rights. Just for the record, I am a male lesbian.
  9. 20 May '09 03:47
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Everyone knows that there are gay people in the military. They just serve as well as anyone else, except they can't actually tell anyone that one fact about themselves.

    I think most, if not all, gay people who serve in the military are professional and honorable enough to comport themselves professionally even if they are allowed to come out of the closet.
    Looking at your flag I assume you are Canadian,And doubt you have served The United States by serving In the U.S. Army as I have. If this is so,how do you "Know" there are gay people in the Army, and they serve just as well as anyone else? You dont. You assume.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    20 May '09 05:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    The "don't ask, don't tell" policy, [...] [allowed] gays to serve as long as they weren't open about their sexual preference.[/i]

    which was fair.
    Which was fair?

    Define "fair" as you use it here.
  11. Standard member Thequ1ck
    Fast above
    20 May '09 05:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Which was fair?

    Define "fair" as you use it here.
    Fair as in the big wheel but no tunnel of love.

    edit. Has nobody taught you it's rude to answer a question with
    another question?
  12. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    20 May '09 05:42
    Didn't Bill Hicks end this argument years ago?
    Let's see, what did he say?
    Oh yeah...

    "Isn't it strange that the military thinks tha gays will undermine morality in the army? Aren't they just a bunch of hired killers?"
  13. Standard member Thequ1ck
    Fast above
    20 May '09 06:07
    Oh some guys like the army, I think that it's a mess! If it's so damn terrific, how come I wear a dress?

    Klinger - M*A*S*H
  14. 20 May '09 07:27
    Originally posted by eamon o
    so if someone wants to leave the military, they just need to act gay?
    I don't buy it. If it is all you have to do, I am sure Kinger would have tried it. Cross dressing should have been enough, but it wansn't.

    Case closed.
  15. Subscriber Crowley
    Not Aleister
    20 May '09 09:50
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Unless the military has changed since I was serving, soldiers are required to shower together. I wouldn't feel comfortable with some dude staring at my gun. The poor devil that has to share a foxhole with a gay may get some undeserved ridicule as well. I would hate to have to depend on someone watching my back in combat that thinks he is a woman in a mans ...[text shortened]... wouldn't be there regardless of who has what rights. Just for the record, I am a male lesbian.
    So you're comfortable with straight men staring at your junk?

    We non-bigoted people can fee camaraderie and be comfortable with people of any sexual persuasion. Are you saying all the guys in the armed services are either gay or bigots?