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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 03 Dec '11 16:22
    I think this is actually a Ron Paul position that Gingrich decided he liked.

    http://theweek.com/article/index/221710/newt-gingrichs-radical-plan-to-privatize-social-security

    Is it really a radical position to take given SS is a Ponzi Scheme, as Rick Perry has said? Is this a safe position for Newt to take or is it risky?
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Dec '11 16:33
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I think this is actually a Ron Paul position that Gingrich decided he liked.

    http://theweek.com/article/index/221710/newt-gingrichs-radical-plan-to-privatize-social-security

    Is it really a radical position to take given SS is a Ponzi Scheme, as Rick Perry has said? Is this a safe position for Newt to take or is it risky?
    I certainly hope any Republican nominee stresses his intense desire to end Social Security.
  3. 03 Dec '11 16:39
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I certainly hope any Republican nominee stresses his intense desire to end Social Security.
    I will put you in the category of "it is a losing position in the general election".
  4. 03 Dec '11 16:41
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I certainly hope any Republican nominee stresses his intense desire to end Social Security.
    Is SS a Ponzi Scheme? Does it matter?
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Dec '11 16:47
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I will put you in the category of "it is a losing position in the general election".
    I, like the overwhelming majority of Americans, oppose the privatization of Social Security on the merits.

    Politically, it kills the Republicans among seniors which is the group they retain the most support in. So I'm all for the Republicans stressing their belief it is a "Ponzi scheme" that should be abolished. About 3/4 of Americans disagree according to many and varied polls.
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Dec '11 16:48 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Is SS a Ponzi Scheme? Does it matter?
    No it isn't. Yes it would.

    Here's why:

    First, in the case of Social Security, no one is being misled. Madoff allegedly falsely claimed to have discovered a "black box" method of earning impressive results, and by doing so enticed individuals and organizations to invest with him. Social Security is exactly what it claims to be: A mandatory transfer payment system under which current workers are taxed on their incomes to pay benefits, with no promises of huge returns. (Of course, it's true that if Madoff had the power to require participation, he would have had an easier time keeping his alleged scheme rolling.)

    Second, Social Security isn't automatically doomed to fail. Played out to its logical conclusion, a Ponzi scheme is unsustainable because the number of potential investors is eventually exhausted. That's when the last people to participate are out of luck; the music stops and there's nowhere to sit.


    It's true that Social Security faces a huge burden -- and a significant, long-term financing problem -- in light of retiring Baby Boomers. (The latest projections anticipate Social Security tax revenues to fall below costs in 2017 and the Social Security Trust Funds to be exhausted in 2041.) But Social Security can be, and has been, tweaked and modified to reflect changes in the size of the taxpaying workforce and the number of beneficiaries. It would take great political will, but the government could change benefit formulas or take other steps, like increasing taxes, to keep the system from failing.

    http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/economy/social.security.fortune/index.htm
  7. 03 Dec '11 17:10
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I, like the overwhelming majority of Americans, oppose the privatization of Social Security on the merits.

    Politically, it kills the Republicans among seniors which is the group they retain the most support in. So I'm all for the Republicans stressing their belief it is a "Ponzi scheme" that should be abolished. About 3/4 of Americans disagree according to many and varied polls.
    The majority of Americans could be wrong.

    Isn't SS being funded by illegal aliens who pay into SS and never collect until they become legal citizens?

    I do think privatization of SS would be foolish to do right now. The stock market will probably crash within a couple of years. After a crash it might be a good idea. Until then I will always think it is a plan to prop up the stock market and delay the inevitable crash.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Dec '11 17:21
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    The majority of Americans could be wrong.

    Isn't SS being funded by illegal aliens who pay into SS and never collect until they become legal citizens?

    I do think privatization of SS would be foolish to do right now. The stock market will probably crash within a couple of years. After a crash it might be a good idea. Until then I will always think it is a plan to prop up the stock market and delay the inevitable crash.
    Theoretically they could be, but I don't think they are. Social Security has done its job and greatly reduced elderly poverty.

    Illegal immigrants who obtain fake IDs and who's employers accept them do pay into SS and the vast majority will never collect anything. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1322932583-iz4nP8sUUBt7Q7aDBZ14MA

    My personal feeling is that there should be a huge crackdown on employers of illegal immigrants with big fines and perhaps even jail time for offenders.
  9. 03 Dec '11 21:13
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Theoretically they could be, but I don't think they are. Social Security has done its job and greatly reduced elderly poverty.

    Illegal immigrants who obtain fake IDs and who's employers accept them do pay into SS and the vast majority will never collect anything. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted ...[text shortened]... wn on employers of illegal immigrants with big fines and perhaps even jail time for offenders.
    I agree, but do you see the incentive for government to tolerate illegal immigrants? More can be looted from SS because of it.
  10. 04 Dec '11 01:40
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I think this is actually a Ron Paul position that Gingrich decided he liked.

    http://theweek.com/article/index/221710/newt-gingrichs-radical-plan-to-privatize-social-security

    Is it really a radical position to take given SS is a Ponzi Scheme, as Rick Perry has said? Is this a safe position for Newt to take or is it risky?
    Rick Perry is an idiot. If he told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?
  11. 04 Dec '11 04:35
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    Rick Perry is an idiot. If he told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?
    Sure he is an idiot, but that doesn't make him wrong about SS.

    Bill Clinton is a drug dealer and a murderer. Shall we keep score?

    http://documentaryheaven.com/bill-clinton-his-life/
  12. 04 Dec '11 05:20
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Sure he is an idiot, but that doesn't make him wrong about SS.

    Bill Clinton is a drug dealer and a murderer. Shall we keep score?

    http://documentaryheaven.com/bill-clinton-his-life/
    No, Ronald Reagan was a drug-dealer and a traitor whose victims are legion.
  13. 04 Dec '11 12:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Sure he is an idiot, but that doesn't make him wrong about SS.

    Bill Clinton is a drug dealer and a murderer. Shall we keep score?

    http://documentaryheaven.com/bill-clinton-his-life/
    Saying Social Security is a "Ponzi Scheme" is neither right nor wrong, it's just meaningless, like saying "Obama is Hitler".
  14. 04 Dec '11 16:15
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    No, Ronald Reagan was a drug-dealer and a traitor whose victims are legion.
    They both are. Reagan called Oliver North a hero after dealing heroin.

    It doesn't matter if they are republicans or democrats. They all work for the same elites. My point is that you are blinded by partisan bias and don't realize it. It doesn't matter if it is the left or right boot on your neck. They take turns and you debate which boot is softer.
  15. 04 Dec '11 16:16
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Saying Social Security is a "Ponzi Scheme" is neither right nor wrong, it's just meaningless, like saying "Obama is Hitler".
    The only thing meaningless is your poor comparison. You are capable of better.