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Debates Forum

  1. 22 Jan '12 14:37
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    It might have worked against Obama or another Democrat, but I doubt it's going to play well in a Republican primary. Nobody thinks Newt is anti-capitalist.

    And I hesitate to bring it up, but I have to wonder if anti-Mormon bigotry wasn't a factor here.
    Then you follow it up with this, and I want to cry.
  2. 22 Jan '12 17:23
    Originally posted by sh76
    Exit polls suggest he could win by 10 points or even more.

    A happy day for the White House.
    Now you know why Obama was singing.
  3. 22 Jan '12 18:41
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Ironically, I think Santorum would make a good political choice for VP either for Romney or for Gingrich (under the shaky assumption that either candidate would actually want him on the ticket at all). Romney needs to shore up social conservatives, and Gingrich could benefit from reaching out to Reagan democrats.
    They also desperately need Pennsylvania.
  4. 22 Jan '12 18:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Then you follow it up with this, and I want to cry.
    It's based on right wing Christians in my own family. They will sit the election out if Romney is the nominee.

    I don't know if they're at all representative. They aren't particularly political. But I won't be trying to talk them out of it. At least not until November 7.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Jan '12 19:02
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    It's based on right wing Christians in my own family. They will sit the election out if Romney is the nominee.

    I don't know if they're at all representative. They aren't particularly political. But I won't be trying to talk them out of it. At least not until November 7.
    When was the last US election where there has been any evidence of bigotry of any type playing a significant role?
  6. 22 Jan '12 19:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    When was the last US election where there has been any evidence of bigotry of any type playing a significant role?
    Uhhh, 2008?
  7. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    22 Jan '12 19:06
    Originally posted by sh76
    When was the last US election where there has been any evidence of bigotry of any type playing a significant role?
    Other than the anti-white bigotry that won Obama the White House? 😉
  8. Standard member wittywonka
    Chocolate Expert
    22 Jan '12 19:15
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    It is that he is incapable of displaying compassion or humility and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Judge his character. He seems exasperated every time he has to talk to one of the 'little people.' It shows.
    That reminds me of a clip I saw of Romney on MSNBC's The Ed Show (spent ten minutes or so looking for it online with no luck) from a visit Romney made to a New Hampshire small business--I think it was a restaurant--during his 2008 campaign. I don't remember the exact wording, but this is the essence of the conversation he had with the owner:

    "How's business?" Romney asked.
    "Actually not so great," the woman replied.
    "Not so great?" Romney replied, somewhat incredulously, immediately after which he moved on and just started shaking hands of other people.

    It may not be justified (or maybe it is), but Romney certainly has that image problem.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Jan '12 19:35
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    Uhhh, 2008?
    Where was the evidence of bigotry playing a significant role in 2008 election?

    On the contrary, 2008 seems the shining example of where bigotry was irrelevant; especially in there being zero evidence of the "Bradley" effect.*




    * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect
  10. 22 Jan '12 20:09
    It was not religious bigotry. Most people don't know the worst things about Mormonism anyway. It was what I already said. People feel that they cannot trust Romney. It has nothing to do with religion or wealth. Would you buy a used car from Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich? I know they both would be trying to cheat me. I also know that if I told Newt to quit b.s.ing me and give me his best deal then he would come clean with a grin. Romney would pretend not to hear me! Either you know this on some gut level or else you have purchased several bridges. You can't fool all of the people all of the time. Romney thinks he can.
  11. 22 Jan '12 22:05
    Originally posted by TerrierJack
    It was not religious bigotry. Most people don't know the worst things about Mormonism anyway. It was what I already said. People feel that they cannot trust Romney. It has nothing to do with religion or wealth. Would you buy a used car from Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich? I know they both would be trying to cheat me. I also know that if I told Newt to quit ...[text shortened]... hased several bridges. You can't fool all of the people all of the time. Romney thinks he can.
    You obviously don't know very many fundamentalist Christians. I know a few that say that his Mormon roots are the deal breaker for them in not voting for him.
  12. 22 Jan '12 23:23
    Originally posted by sh76
    Where was the evidence of bigotry playing a significant role in 2008 election?

    On the contrary, 2008 seems the shining example of where bigotry was irrelevant; especially in there being zero evidence of the "Bradley" effect.*




    * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect
    There were youtube clips of people attending McCain events saying that they would never vote for a black president. The media tried to explain away the very lopsided Clinton win in West Virginia as "cultural." The sheer volume of racist noise on the Internet.

    I mean, clearly it wasn't decisive, but in terms of "significant" it had a great deal to do with how Obama campaigned and presented himself. If Michelle does not continue to straighten her hair, do you think it won't have an impact?

    In this case there are many Christians who believe that Mormonism is a Satanic cult. Do you think they're going to vote for him because the Republican mainstream leadership tells them to?
  13. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Jan '12 23:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    There were youtube clips of people attending McCain events saying that they would never vote for a black president. The media tried to explain away the very lopsided Clinton win in West Virginia as "cultural." The sheer volume of racist noise on the Internet.

    I mean, clearly it wasn't decisive, but in terms of "significant" it had a great deal to do with they're going to vote for him because the Republican mainstream leadership tells them to?
    Of course there are going to be individual racists, but there is no evidence that racism was a significant factor in the election. A couple of youtube videos, that Michelle combs her hair and that Obama lost a state he was expected to lose is not evidence of racism.
  14. 23 Jan '12 00:06
    Originally posted by sh76
    Of course there are going to be individual racists, but there is no evidence that racism was a significant factor in the election. A couple of youtube videos, that Michelle combs her hair and that Obama lost a state he was expected to lose is not evidence of racism.
    He didn't just lose WV. He got like 27 percent of the vote. The demographics differ from Pennsylvania mostly in the lack of nonwhite voters. Conclusive evidence of significant racism in the voting decisions? No. But it is evidence.
  15. 23 Jan '12 00:24
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    In most states it's 9 to 1, not 99 to 1.

    In other words, SC still has some problems. I mean, how did the Republican Party there manage to alienate over 1/4 of the state's voters because they're black?

    In the meantime, the President of Citizens United is telling Romney that he should stop attacking the eventual nominee.

    http://livewire.talkingpoint ...[text shortened]... the veil of inevitability. Gingrich winning the nomination is probably too much to ask for.
    The question is whether the Republican party has alienated blacks, or blacks have alienated the Republican party? Blacks voted over 90% for a very white Bill Clinton, and not surprisingly somewhat higher for half white Obama.

    Why is hard to explain.