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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    14 Feb '17 20:22
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jan/26/girls-believe-brilliance-is-a-male-trait-research-into-gender-stereotypes-shows

    "Girls believe brilliance is a male trait, research into gender stereotypes shows."

    "Girls as young as six years old believe that brilliance is a male trait,
    according research into gender stereotypes.
    The US-based study also found that, unlike boys, girls do not believe
    that achieving good grades in school is related to innate abilities."

    It's a 'US-based study', and not all girls are conditioned to embrace
    the same gender stereotypes absorbed by American girls.

    "But Christia Spears Brown, professor of psychology at Kentucky
    University and author of Parenting Beyond Pink and Blue said that the
    research fits in with previous work, which found that parents and
    teachers attribute good grades in maths to hard work for girls, but to
    natural ability for boys.

    “This study shows that girls are internalizing those cultural messages
    early in development, believing that, yes they may work hard, but they
    are not naturally really smart,” she said. “These beliefs can have
    important implications for what types of academic paths children choose
    to take, and shows why girls are opting out of majors like physics,
    despite earning high grades in school.” "
  2. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Feb '17 20:25
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/dec/09/gender-stereotypes-schools-children-choices

    "Reinforcing gender stereotypes: how our schools narrow children's choices."
    --Arlene Donald (She's a professor of physics at Cambridge University)

    "Surely we can do better? We should be able to construct school learning environments
    whereby teachers do not give out messages, subliminal or otherwise, that there are
    subjects that aren't for girls – or equally that aren't for boys."
  3. Account suspended
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    14 Feb '17 21:022 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/dec/09/gender-stereotypes-schools-children-choices

    "Reinforcing gender stereotypes: how our schools narrow children's choices."
    --Arlene Donald (She's a professor of physics at Cambridge University)

    "Surely we can do better? We should be able to construct school learning environments
    whereby ...[text shortened]... r otherwise, that there are
    subjects that aren't for girls – or equally that aren't for boys."
    Reinforcing gender stereotypes??? like the blubbering and incompetent husband? The Simpson and Family guy. The strong all conquering feminine heroine v the weak and effeminate male - Pirates of the Caribbean , Johnny the pansy pirate v the swashbuckling Penelope Cruz watched by literally millions of children worldwide? Is it really necessary to engage in a systematic effort to denigrate men for the sake of exalting women in the name of equality? Is this not what the third wave of feminism has sought to avoid?

    Why do you and those you quote feel the necessity to continually insist that female power has to be asserted again and again and again? We understand already, men are generic, women are special! Men are stupid and women are awesome. I agree we could do better.
  4. Zugzwang
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    14 Feb '17 21:10
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/08/gendered-toys-deter-girls-from-career-engineering-technology

    "Gendered toys could deter girls from career in engineering, report says:
    Institution for Engineering and Technology found toys with a technology focus
    were three times as likely to be targeted at boys."

    " “Societal stereotypes driving these gendered listings could be having a knock-on effect
    for the next generation of engineers, especially girls, impacting their future career
    choices,” the IET warned.

    “Whilst the onus is on the parents to think outside the pink and blue boxes when
    shopping for their children, toy retailers and search engines also have a responsibility
    not to perpetuate gender stereotypes. Search engines in particular could look at
    introducing ways of detecting patterns of gender bias.” "
  5. Account suspended
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    14 Feb '17 21:14
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/08/gendered-toys-deter-girls-from-career-engineering-technology

    "Gendered toys could deter girls from career in engineering, report says:
    Institution for Engineering and Technology found toys with a technology focus
    were three times as likely to be targeted at boys."

    " “Societal stereotypes driving ...[text shortened]... engines in particular could look at
    introducing ways of detecting patterns of gender bias.” "
    You are truly the Nurse Ratched of the debates forum, seeking to emasculate all men. Its hilarious.😵
  6. Standard membervivify
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    14 Feb '17 21:52
    It's too bad the report seems unavailable to the general public. Only the abstract is available through the link. I would've liked to know what questions and methodology was used to arrive at the conclusion in the report.
  7. Zugzwang
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    14 Feb '17 22:021 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    It's too bad the report seems unavailable to the general public. Only the abstract is available through the link.
    I would've liked to know what questions and methodology was used to arrive at the conclusion in the report.
    The article is in Science: Vol 355, Issue 6323 (27 January 2017).
    'Science' is a publication of the AAAS (American Association for the Advanement of Science).
    The AAAS has chosen not to provide free full internet access to 'Science' for non-members.
    Otherwise, who would pay to subscribe to 'Science'?

    Anyone interested in the full article should visit a university library or ask one's public library to borrow that issue.
  8. Joined
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    14 Feb '17 22:572 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jan/26/girls-believe-brilliance-is-a-male-trait-research-into-gender-stereotypes-shows

    "Girls believe brilliance is a male trait, research into gender stereotypes shows."

    "Girls as young as six years old believe that brilliance is a male trait,
    according research into gender stereotypes.
    The US-based stud ...[text shortened]... ws why girls are opting out of majors like physics,
    despite earning high grades in school.” "
    The way so many are so wrapped up in stereotypes is indicative of how so many are rendered irrational because of deep seated fears and biases - be it based on gender, race, culture, sexual orientation, gender identity or what have you. It's an uphill climb. It's an irrationality that is highly resistant to reason once set.

    There are many examples of such people who regularly post on these forums - including one notable example on this very thread.
  9. Joined
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    15 Feb '17 01:39
    As a group, male IQ is more extreme. This is a proven fact.

    This means that you will find more males at both ends of the spectrum. At the extremely intelligent range you will find more males. At the extremely stupid range you will find more males.
  10. Joined
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    15 Feb '17 02:29
    As for math scores...

    http://www.aei.org/publication/2015-sat-test-results-confirm-pattern-thats-persisted-for-40-years-high-school-boys-are-better-at-math-than-girls/
  11. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    15 Feb '17 12:491 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    As for math scores...

    http://www.aei.org/publication/2015-sat-test-results-confirm-pattern-thats-persisted-for-40-years-high-school-boys-are-better-at-math-than-girls/
    I hate to be the one to tell you, but IQ has nothing to do with creativity. Richard Feynman had an IQ of only about 120 but won a Nobel prize despite that.

    You forget people like Madam Curie who also won a Nobel prize for her brilliant work on radium.

    You forget people like Joni Mitchell who wrote hundreds of telling, truthful and deep songs

    Or Augusta Ada King, inventer of computer programming.

    Or Hedy Lamarr, inventor of the concept of switched frequencies now used in cell phones and other technologies.
    Or Katherine Johnson, genius who helped launch Apollo and even earlier.

    I see this gender bias crap and have a number of grandaughters who we try to make them think better of themselves with exposure to reading, puzzles and the like using paper, kindles and the like, whatever it takes to stop this gender bias crap endemic in the world.

    It gets encoded into the culture when you have BULLSHTYE verses in the bible like

    "A man is worth 50 shekels, but a woman worth only 30 shekels'

    I have seen all the apologist crap trying to rationalize that but the bottom line is it is used to put women on a lower branch of the human tree then men.

    'See, it's right there in the bible, that was written by GOD'

    Right. What BS.
  12. Joined
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    15 Feb '17 13:052 edits
    Creativity has nothing to do with scoring well on math tests if one does not understand the underpinnings of the problem.

    Some people understand ideas more easily than others. Some people remember facts and ideas while others never really understand or quickly forget. The ones who pick up things more easily and remember them are more likely to be guys.

    Notice I did not say will exclusively be guys. I can't help what people might claim I am saying, after I clearly stated I am not.
  13. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    15 Feb '17 14:012 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Creativity has nothing to do with scoring well on math tests if one does not understand the underpinnings of the problem.

    Some people understand ideas more easily than others. Some people remember facts and ideas while others never really understand or quickly forget. The ones who pick up things more easily and remember them are more likely to be guys.

    ...[text shortened]... vely be guys. I can't help what people might claim I am saying, after I clearly stated I am not.
    You are still promulgating the idea women are on a lower mental scale than men, and on tests conveniently designed mainly by men.

    I wonder how you would fare IQ wise on a test written entirely by women?

    And BTW, if women are told generation after generation they suck at math and so forth, have you ever heard of epigenetics? It's the fact that what effects grandma can effect grandkids genetically not involving actual mutations.

    For instance, a puppy raised in cold weather will statistically bear puppies also able to survive cold weather compared to the same species raised, say in Hawaii and those subsequent puppies tested for cold endurance and they will find them more susceptible to cold. That is the crux of epigenetics.

    BTW right now, women are the majority STEM students as we speak.
  14. Cape Town
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    15 Feb '17 14:33
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    “This study shows that girls are internalizing those cultural messages
    early in development, believing that, yes they may work hard, but they
    are not naturally really smart,” she said. “These beliefs can have
    important implications for what types of academic paths children choose
    to take, and shows why girls are opting out of majors like physics,
    despite earning high grades in school.” "
    I have seen other studies that compared eastern cultural attitudes with western ones and found that far east students believed more in hard work and thus were more likely to work hard to solve a problem whereas western students would give up more easily. So maybe this stereo typing is beneficial to girls.
    After all, the stereotyping is incorrectly telling the less successful boys that they are just naturally stupid when in reality hard work could get them success.
  15. Cape Town
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    15 Feb '17 14:35
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    And BTW, if women are told generation after generation they suck at math and so forth, have you ever heard of epigenetics? It's the fact that what effects grandma can effect grandkids genetically not involving actual mutations.
    Epigenetics is not an intelligent process and will not make women such at math just because their parents did.
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