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  1. 20 Apr '12 11:07 / 1 edit
    Glaciers are growing around the world,
    including the United States

    http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm

    for example,
    1. Glaciers growing on Mt. Shasta - Record snowfall to spur even more growth
    28 Mar 11 - The media has done a great job of covering this up, but the fact is that all seven glaciers on California’s Mount Shasta are growing

    2. Glaciers growing in Italy
    8 Feb 11 - Glaciers are growing on two different mountains in Italy - Mount Canin and Mount Montasio. Will you see this in the main-stream media?

    3. India - Record snowfall revives 2,000 glaciers
    17 Feb 11 - Already more snowfall this month than
    1998 record for the entire month. Think you'll see
    this in the mainstream media?

    4. Area Of Thick Arctic Ice Doubled In Last Two Years
    31 Dec 10 - It has doubled since 2008.

    5. Antarctica - Highest September snowfall on record -
    Third largest sea-ice extent
    17 Oct 10 - September 2010 was the third largest sea ice extent on record, behind 2006 (largest) and 2007 (second largest).

    Here's a (partial) list of the
    specific glaciers that are growing

    (There are many more)

    http://www.iceagenow.com/List_of_Expanding_Glaciers.htm

    When will the left wing nut jobs and the lame stream media come out and admit they were duped by slick politicians and mass hysteria into accepting the so called "Man made global warming" myth ?
    Its another scheme to take your money and "spread the wealth".
  2. 20 Apr '12 11:31
    Let me know when the general consensus among climatologists (scientists in the relevant field) changes and that will do more than your cherry picked data.
  3. Subscriber Kewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
    20 Apr '12 11:43 / 1 edit
    It's just another dodgy book promotion. Here's the Guardian's take on them:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005/may/10/environment.columnists

    Junk science: David Bellamy's inaccurate and selective figures on glacier shrinkage are a boon to climate change deniers

    George Monbiot
    The Guardian, Tuesday 10 May 2005 00.46 BST

    The article goes to considerable lengths to debunk this stuff, including a classic typo by David Bellamy (which he's admitted to) which has been quoted as gospel by all the cranks on the planet. I tried to insert quotes but robomod thinks there's too much text, sorry. It's really an entertaining read and worth the page-flip.
  4. Subscriber Kewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
    20 Apr '12 11:45
    Just a couple of extracts:

    "They are constantly quoted as evidence that man-made climate change is not happening. But where did they come from? Singer cites half a source: "A paper published in Science in 1989." Well, the paper might be 16 years old, but at least, and at last, there is one. Surely? I went through every edition of Science published in 1989, both manually and electronically. Not only did it contain nothing resembling those figures, throughout that year there was no paper published in this journal about glacial advance or retreat. So it wasn't looking too good for Bellamy, or Singer, or any of the deniers who have cited these figures."

    "It is hard to convey just how selective you have to be to dismiss the evidence for climate change. You must climb over a mountain of evidence to pick up a crumb: a crumb which then disintegrates in the palm of your hand. You must ignore an entire canon of science, the statements of the world's most eminent scientific institutions, and thousands of papers published in the foremost scientific journals. You must, if you are David Bellamy, embrace instead the claims of an eccentric former architect, which are based on what appears to be a non-existent data set. And you must do all this while calling yourself a scientist."
  5. 20 Apr '12 13:40
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Let me know when the general consensus among climatologists (scientists in the relevant field) changes and that will do more than your cherry picked data.
    Antarctica is a continent, not a mere island.

    That is one big cherry!
  6. 20 Apr '12 14:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Antarctica is a continent, not a mere island.

    And your point is?

    When did I claim or suggest that antartica was a mere island?

    The evidence of global warming and man made global warming is more than merely the size or amount of ice in antartica.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    20 Apr '12 14:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    [b]Glaciers are growing around the world,
    including the United States

    http://www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm

    for example,
    1. Glaciers growing on Mt. Shasta - Record snowfall to spur even more growth
    28 Mar 11 - The media has done a great job of covering this up, but the fact is that all seven glaciers on California’s Mount global warming" myth ?
    Its another scheme to take your money and "spread the wealth".[/b][/b]
    Uther, while you may be able to find some contrary anecdotal evidence, the evidence of global warming is all too real and depressing. The evidence that it is substantially man made, while not quite as clear, is also pretty strong.

    While I tend to agree that the wealth redistribution plans (e.g., cap and trade) are not going to work, investing in alternative energy and researching other solutions makes a lot of sense.
  8. Subscriber Kewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
    20 Apr '12 15:14
    This looks like a more scientific study, because it isn't just cherry-picking:
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/himalayan-glaciers-growing-intermediate.htm

    and here's the United Nations on the subject:
    http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/

    Anyone interested in looking at the whole field can easily find information with proper scientific studies and references.
  9. 20 Apr '12 15:21
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    This looks like a more scientific study, because it isn't just cherry-picking:
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/himalayan-glaciers-growing-intermediate.htm

    and here's the United Nations on the subject:
    http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/

    Anyone interested in looking at the whole field can easily find information with proper scientific studies and references.
    Just wanted to note the final sentence in that scientific study:

    "When you narrowly focus on a few cherry picked glaciers, you can be misled into an incorrect view of global glacier trends. When you take in the broader picture, you see that globally, glaciers are shrinking at an accelerating rate"
  10. 20 Apr '12 16:44
    I saw an article on the BBC News website recently about some growing glaciers near the K2 mountain. But I guess that doesn't count as mainstream media in utherpendragon's world.

    Of course, a growing glacier somewhere does not count as evidence against global warming, likewise a melting one doesn't count as evidence for it. Now if you look at all glaciers combined, that might tell you something.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    20 Apr '12 16:47
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Now if you look at all glaciers combined, that might tell you something.
    Looking at things "combined" is collectivism.
  12. 20 Apr '12 19:25
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Just wanted to note the final sentence in that scientific study:

    "When you narrowly focus on a few cherry picked glaciers, you can be misled into an incorrect view of global glacier trends. When you take in the broader picture, you see that globally, glaciers are shrinking at an accelerating rate"
    Further more; Glaciers growing where they have been historically stable can ironically be evidence of global warming, as one result is to cut off warming elements such as the 'gulf stream' from areas they historically reached due to desalinated water from melting arctic glaciers flowing into the Atlantic.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    20 Apr '12 20:32
    The best evidence for global warming in my opinion is sea level rise:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

    Some people might find it relevant that man made global warming led to a worldwide dramatic rise in sea levels when the glaciers covering northern Europe melted around 5-10 thousand years ago. There was intense aridification north of the equator worldwide as well.

    In other words, Arizona, Egypt, north Mali, Arabia etc are deserts, Eden turned into the Persian Gulf, the English Channel and Nordic fjords filled in and northern Eurasia became available for people to live on due to the fact that the ice melted - probably due to overgrazing in north Africa and the Middle East.

    And, somebody wrote a very influential story about what it was like and called it "the Beginning" i.e. Genesis. Why? Because it was when civilization began.
  14. 20 Apr '12 20:53
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    The best evidence for global warming in my opinion is sea level rise:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

    Some people might find it relevant that man made global warming led to a worldwide dramatic rise in sea levels when the glaciers covering northern Europe melted around 5-10 thousand years ago. There was intense aridification ...[text shortened]... like and called it "the Beginning" i.e. Genesis. Why? Because it was when civilization began.
    I am with you as far as over grazing, along with, rising temperatures and lower precipitation levels causing desertization, but are you also saying that over grazing caused the ice caps to melt?
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    20 Apr '12 20:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by kevcvs57
    I am with you as far as over grazing, along with, rising temperatures and lower precipitation levels causing desertization, but are you also saying that over grazing caused the ice caps to melt?
    Cow farts contain a lot of greenhouse gases.

    http://www.epa.gov/rlep/faq.html