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  1. 03 Apr '14 02:42 / 1 edit
    https://autos.yahoo.com/news/lawmakers-accuse-gm-possible-criminal-191858417.html

    Apparently 13 people have been killed due to a defect in the ignition switch of millions of GM cars. It works like this, the weight of the key chain causes the car to turn off disabling such things as breaks and air bags. Evidence points to a cover up with lawmakers saying that there has been no change of culture in the tax payer bailed out corporate failure known as GM. In fact, GM is being pressured to recall about 2.6 million cars on the road now, which might include you!! This is what happens when you prop up failure.


    At this point, it's like the government investigating itself. We may as well have Charley Rangel up there getting his hands slapped with nothing of substance coming from it all.

    Nothing to see here. Just know that millions of auto workers still have jobs. Considering that, wasn't it worth 13 lives and trillions of tax payer dollars?
  2. 03 Apr '14 05:33
    So there is an engeneering fault because of a taxpayer-funded bailout, even though all of the major car manufacturers have had to recall cars in recent years. A nice dose of whodey logic, once again.
  3. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    03 Apr '14 06:02
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    So there is an engeneering fault because of a taxpayer-funded bailout, even though all of the major car manufacturers have had to recall cars in recent years. A nice dose of whodey logic, once again.
    Want to buy an Australian built bailed out Holden?
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    03 Apr '14 06:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    https://autos.yahoo.com/news/lawmakers-accuse-gm-possible-criminal-191858417.html

    Apparently 13 people have been killed due to a defect in the ignition switch of millions of GM cars. It works like this, the weight of the key chain causes the car to turn off disabling such things as breaks and air bags. Evidence points to a cover up with lawmakers saying ...[text shortened]... still have jobs. Considering that, wasn't it worth 13 lives and trillions of tax payer dollars?
    If one of those 13 people was a relative of yours you'd be singing a very different tune here.
  5. 03 Apr '14 08:06
    Buy Japanese cars they are awesome!
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Apr '14 12:45
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Buy Japanese cars they are awesome!
    Of course, it's not like Toyota ever has recall problems.

    They just enjoy paying $1.2B criminal penalties.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/19/toyota-said-to-be-settling-with-government-for-1-billion-in-recall-probe/?tid=hp_mm
  7. 03 Apr '14 12:48
    Originally posted by sh76
    Of course, it's not like Toyota ever has recall problems.

    They just enjoy paying $1.2B criminal penalties.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/03/19/toyota-said-to-be-settling-with-government-for-1-billion-in-recall-probe/?tid=hp_mm
    I still say they are awesome!
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Apr '14 12:51
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I still say they are awesome!
    Like every other car company, it's hit or miss. I had a Camry for many years that was great and ran well until it was 15 years old and had 200k miles. On the other hand, my father has a Camry that's been an unreliable money pit.
  9. Standard member vivify
    rain
    03 Apr '14 15:15
    Watching the Daily Show, and it reported that it would've cost 52 cents to fix the defective part, but G.M. decided it was too much money. 13 deaths because G.M. is greedy and amoral.
  10. 03 Apr '14 15:45
    Originally posted by vivify
    Watching the Daily Show, and it reported that it would've cost 52 cents to fix the defective part, but G.M. decided it was too much money. 13 deaths because G.M. is greedy and amoral.
    Should they be sued so that the taxpayers can pay the families?
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    03 Apr '14 22:12
    Theme movie: Fight Club
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Apr '14 22:41
    Originally posted by vivify
    Watching the Daily Show, and it reported that it would've cost 52 cents to fix the defective part, but G.M. decided it was too much money. 13 deaths because G.M. is greedy and amoral.
    Brilliant discussion by the late great Milton Friedman about exactly that sort of issue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltnBOrCB7I
  13. 04 Apr '14 12:26
    Originally posted by vivify
    Watching the Daily Show, and it reported that it would've cost 52 cents to fix the defective part, but G.M. decided it was too much money. 13 deaths because G.M. is greedy and amoral.
    Now that the governmnet has as political stake in GM justice is that much further from a possibility.
  14. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    04 Apr '14 14:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    Brilliant discussion by the late great Milton Friedman about exactly that sort of issue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltnBOrCB7I
    That child was overmatched. He said it himself, "I believe in abortion, so I don't believe that every human life is sacred." I don't want to go down the abortion road; but it amply illuminates his lack of philosophical continuity. Which lives are sacred? Which ones aren't? Who is qualified to judge?

    Friedman boxed him in, and he got spooked. Had the questioner continued down the road on which he started, he would have quickly come to the conclusion that the proper argument was not economic but moral and public-relations based.

    Something else never considered when making the economic argument: the opportunity cost to society of the lives lost. A recent economic estimate somewhere put the average American's lifetime contribution to the economy at around $6 million. That $6 million is never accounted for because it's not a direct cost to the sad, black-soul beings that make actuarial decisions of this nature. Companies also seem to assume that a priori knowledge of the lethal defect will stay private. This is rarely true, and time and again, juries have shown that they are willing to punish these sets of circumstances quite severely indeed.

    Me? I'm an engineer. Fix the goddamn defect.
  15. 04 Apr '14 16:07
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    That child was overmatched. He said it himself, "I believe in abortion, so I don't believe that every human life is sacred." I don't want to go down the abortion road; but it amply illuminates his lack of philosophical continuity. Which lives are sacred? Which ones aren't? Who is qualified to judge?

    Friedman boxed him in, and he got spooked. Ha ...[text shortened]... sets of circumstances quite severely indeed.

    Me? I'm an engineer. Fix the goddamn defect.
    The question is whether, at some time in the future, some part become defective, and an accidental death occurs, Is a manufacturer responsible forever for any deaths relative to that "defective" part? Every part in an automobile at some time will fail. Just a question of when. How long should any manufacturer of any good be responsible for guaranteeing the safe operation and non failure of parts?

    When I started driving, it was rare that a car even was still running 10 years after it was manufactured. Can we presume that each of these deaths, and probably more were the exclusive fault of a defective ignition switch. For about a dozen years I've heard warnings against the practice of having a heavy key chain attached to your ignition key, regardless of the make of the car you drive. I have detachable rings for my car keys, and put the rest in my pocket while driving. Is common sense dead?