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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 05 May '17 21:59 / 4 edits
    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/332023-gop-lawmaker

    Do you remember how Nancy Pelosi said they needed to pass Obamcare to know what is in it? Well today those in the GOP admitted to not reading it as well.

    Enough!

    National politicians base virtually every vote, bill, comment and action on how it will affect them politically. It's about fundraising, re-election and building a long term electoral power base to stay in office forever. It's never about doing what is best for Americans and their health care. How could it be since they don't even bother reading it?

    I'm done with both parties, how about you? I've not read the bill but I'm almost certain we will be paying more, for less.

    But there is good news. Today Texas became the 11th state for the Article V movement. All we need is 20 some more. Hopefully states like MA can resume their own health care system they are happy with. That way conservative states and liberal ones can self govern how they see fit.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-morris/

    Or you can hang on for Dims to do the right thing next time and actually read their own bill.
  2. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 May '17 23:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/332023-gop-lawmaker

    Do you remember how Nancy Pelosi said they needed to pass Obamcare to know what is in it? Well today those in the GOP admitted to not reading it as well.

    Enough!

    National politicians base virtually every vote, bill, comment and action on how it will affect them politically. It's about fundraisin ...[text shortened]...

    Or you can hang on for Dims to do the right thing next time and actually read their own bill.
    This article 5?

    "Article V, U.S. Constitution

    * * * * * * * * * *

    Article V

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate."

    What do you want changed about it? kill the 3/4 vote thing?
  3. 06 May '17 00:01
    This part is what I'm discussing

    "as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment "

    I don't wish to change it, I wish to use it for the first time.

    Until now states have not amended the Constitution, only the Federal Congress. States were included in case the Federal government became too powerful or dictatorial.

    I think it is now time to do so.
  4. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    06 May '17 00:13 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    This part is what I'm discussing

    "as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment "

    I don't wish to change it, I wish to use it for the first time.
    ...[text shortened]... e the Federal government became too powerful or dictatorial.

    I think it is now time to do so.
    So you don't want to kill the 3/4 thing, you want the states to have the balls to get together with their own 3 out of 4 vote and get what? To kill the idea of our US being a republic which by definition means feds trumps states? You want for instance, a state to be able to say, hey, it's ok for us to force creationism to be taught in a science class even though it is in no way science. That kind of thing?

    So if 37 and a half state votes that way it is now part of the constitution?
  5. 06 May '17 00:47 / 2 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/05/donald-trumps-homicidal-healthcare-bill-enrich

    "Donald Trump's homicidal healthcare bill will kill some, and enrich others"

    "Let us imagine that you would like to redistribute hundreds of billions of dollars from working class
    people to the rich, and wouldn’t hesitate to risk the lives of tens of thousands of people to do so.
    Well, as luck would have it, there is a bill— the “American Health Care Act” (AHCA)—that does precisely that."

    "This execrable, homicidal bill must obviously be stopped. But that’s not all we must do.
    The most enduring defense against the rightwing saboteurs is not continued championship of
    a flawed status quo, but instead the promise of a better tomorrow: healthcare for all, through
    a single-payer universal system. That alone will put an end to these deadly assaults on healthcare."
  6. 06 May '17 00:52 / 1 edit
    I have the solution....

    Repeal Obamacare.

    Get a job.

    Personal responsibility.

    Freedom from government intrusion. We should not be slaves to Society and the State.
  7. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    06 May '17 01:25
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I have the solution....

    Repeal Obamacare.

    Get a job.

    Personal responsibility.

    Freedom from government intrusion. We should not be slaves to Society and the State.
    And allow the feds abrogation of responsibility. I guess you just want chaos.

    Republicans always aim for small government so their sponsors can get away with murder like they did in the 19th century, make workers bring their own coal to work if they wanted heat, work them 16 hours a day for 10 cents an hour and let the companies dump toxic chemicals anywhere they want. Yessir bring back the good old days.
  8. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    06 May '17 05:51
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/332023-gop-lawmaker

    Do you remember how Nancy Pelosi said they needed to pass Obamcare to know what is in it? Well today those in the GOP admitted to not reading it as well.

    Enough!

    National politicians base virtually every vote, bill, comment and action on how it will affect them politically. It's about fundraisin ...[text shortened]...

    Or you can hang on for Dims to do the right thing next time and actually read their own bill.
    Why not simply abolish the United States of America and "That way conservative states and liberal ones can self govern how they see fit"? Plus then we could abolish the States and then conservative and liberal cities could self-govern as they see fit? Of course, then it would be best to abolish the cities and then neighborhoods could self govern as they see fit? And then etc. etc. etc. etc.

    Of course, Texas didn't actually call for a a real Article V Convention; it wants to limit the consideration of amendments to only those that right wingers want:

    Applying to the Congress of the United States to call a convention under Article V of the United States Constitution for the limited purpose of proposing one or more amendments to the constitution to impose fiscal restraints on the federal government, to limit the power and jurisdiction of the federal government, and to limit the terms of office of federal officials and members of Congress.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=85R&Bill=SJR2
  9. 06 May '17 08:28
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    And allow the feds abrogation of responsibility. I guess you just want chaos.

    Republicans always aim for small government so their sponsors can get away with murder like they did in the 19th century, make workers bring their own coal to work if they wanted heat, work them 16 hours a day for 10 cents an hour and let the companies dump toxic chemicals anywhere they want. Yessir bring back the good old days.
    Find healthcare as a responsibility of the federal government in the Constitution.

    If it is in the Constitution, then it is a Federal responsibility. If it isn't, it isn't.

    Leftists make serfs of citizens.
  10. 06 May '17 08:31
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Find healthcare as a responsibility of the federal government in the Constitution.

    If it is in the Constitution, then it is a Federal responsibility. If it isn't, it isn't.

    Leftists make serfs of citizens.
    Find equipping the U.S. army with tanks as a responsibility of the federal government in the Constitution.

    If it is in the Constitution, then it is a federal responsibility. If it isn't, it isn't.
  11. 06 May '17 08:31
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Why not simply abolish the United States of America and "That way conservative states and liberal ones can self govern how they see fit"? Plus then we could abolish the States and then conservative and liberal cities could self-govern as they see fit? Of course, then it would be best to abolish the cities and then neighborhoods could self govern as they ...[text shortened]... ers of Congress.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=85R&Bill=SJR2
    I would be fine with a break up of the Union.

    Get rid of the Pinko/ God hating states. Give the rest of us Freedom.
  12. 06 May '17 10:25
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    So you don't want to kill the 3/4 thing, you want the states to have the balls to get together with their own 3 out of 4 vote and get what? To kill the idea of our US being a republic which by definition means feds trumps states? You want for instance, a state to be able to say, hey, it's ok for us to force creationism to be taught in a science class even t ...[text shortened]... t kind of thing?

    So if 37 and a half state votes that way it is now part of the constitution?
    Calm down spanky. This has nothing to do with creationism being taught in schools.

    I would focus on two topics that about 80% of Americans favor, which are term limits for those in Congress and some sort of balanced budget amendment. If we value democracy then we will get this done, and the only way to do it is the Article V movement cuz those in Congress will never limit their own power.

    $20 trillion in the hole and for what exactly?
  13. 06 May '17 10:28
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Why not simply abolish the United States of America and "That way conservative states and liberal ones can self govern how they see fit"? Plus then we could abolish the States and then conservative and liberal cities could self-govern as they see fit? Of course, then it would be best to abolish the cities and then neighborhoods could self govern as they ...[text shortened]... ers of Congress.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=85R&Bill=SJR2
    Yes, conservatives who want to constrain federal power in any way actually want anarchy.

    So it's either abject federal power over all or anarchy Those are our only options.

    And guess what, the Founders were just as crazy as me for putting it in the Constitution.

    Go figure.
  14. 06 May '17 10:30
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I would be fine with a break up of the Union.

    Get rid of the Pinko/ God hating states. Give the rest of us Freedom.
    Do you really think the Federal government would allow the break up of the union? Really?

    It would be far easier just to declare certain states "sanctuary states" for those who don't wish to comply with federal law, which seems to only work for liberal states cuz they own the court system.
  15. 06 May '17 13:15
    Originally posted by whodey
    I'm done with both parties, how about you?
    You are finally waking up? Took you long enough. Have they stopped paying you to attack Obama?
    I am going to sit back and laugh while you have to live with the mess you got yourself into. Your years of lies and no solutions are finally coming back to bite.