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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Jan '11 18:18
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/02/AR2011010201206.html

    Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.), incoming chairman of one of the House committees that oversees health policy, said undoing the Democrats' health reform law would be a top priority for the new GOP-controlled Congress.

    Upton said on "Fox News Sunday" that he believes there may be enough opposition in the new House to reach the two-thirds majority required to override a presidential veto. Short of that, he said House leaders will "go after this bill piece by piece."

    "As part of our pledge, we said that we would bring up a vote to repeal healthcare early," Upton said. "That will happen before the president's State of the Union address. We have 242 Republicans. There will be a significant number of Democrats, I think, that will join us. You will remember when that vote passed in the House last March, it only passed by seven votes."

    Upton added: "I don't think we're going to be that far off from having the votes to actually override a veto."


    At some point, the President may have to compromise and agree to a repeal of parts of the bill to avoid this kind of a war (and the President has already proven he has no stomach for a major fight right now).

    Seems to me that the individual mandate will be the first to go, especially if more courts get on the bandwagon and rule it unconstitutional. The Obama administration may agree to a legislative repeal to avoid the possibility of a legal defeat.

    If and when the individual mandate goes, you might see the rest of the bill topple like a house of cards.
  2. 03 Jan '11 18:28 / 1 edit
    The parts in place I don't see them removing, such as allowing your children to stay on a policy until 26, or that they can't kick you off the insurance plan due to expensive care.

    Remember, Obama has the poison veto pen as well
  3. 03 Jan '11 18:30
    I don't think Obama really is ever up for a fight.

    He'll fold like a deck of cards and then tell his base that they are being unreasonable for criticizing him for it. Hey... the pattern hasn't changed so far, why should it change now?

    If he has grown a spine and will actually start fighting for something then I just wonder what the hell took him so long?
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    03 Jan '11 19:02
    Originally posted by badmoon
    The parts in place I don't see them removing, such as allowing your children to stay on a policy until 26, or that they can't kick you off the insurance plan due to expensive care.

    Remember, Obama has the poison veto pen as well
    They're probably bluffing about having the votes to override the veto, but if they ever do override a veto and repeal the bill, it will be one of the worst defeats of a sitting President in recent history.
  5. 03 Jan '11 20:23
    What legislation that resulted in a big growth in government size and control have the Republicans ever actually repealed? Any? Just wondering....
  6. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Jan '11 20:55
    Originally posted by sh76
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/02/AR2011010201206.html

    [quote]Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.), incoming chairman of one of the House committees that oversees health policy, said undoing the Democrats' health reform law would be a top priority for the new GOP-controlled Congress.

    Upton said on "Fox News Sunday" that he believes ther ...[text shortened]... ual mandate goes, you might see the rest of the bill topple like a house of cards.
    A FoxNews pipe dream. I'd rate the chances of Upton finding 35 House Democrats to vote for an override of an Obama veto of his health care reform as very low. I'd rate the chances of the Republicans getting 20 Senate votes for such (even if they held every "moderate" Republican) as absolutely zero.

    A repeal legislation is a waste of everyone's time.
  7. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Jan '11 22:14
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    A FoxNews pipe dream. I'd rate the chances of Upton finding 35 House Democrats to vote for an override of an Obama veto of his health care reform as very low. I'd rate the chances of the Republicans getting 20 Senate votes for such (even if they held every "moderate" Republican) as absolutely zero.

    A repeal legislation is a waste of everyone's time.
    Actually, Upton would need 48 House Democrats, so change that from "very low" to "very, very low".
  8. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    03 Jan '11 22:47
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Actually, Upton would need 48 House Democrats, so change that from "very low" to "very, very low".
    So after flapping their gums about repeal and reform, their bluff gets called, then what? Does this damage the GOP's credibility as the alternate party of change? Does this fuel a Tea Party resurgence as people skeptical of the two party system see that regardless of rhetoric, short of a revolution of sorts, Washington is never going to change the way it does business and the mantra of small Government chanted so often by GOP stalwarts is nothing more than a smokescreen, the last thing in fact on the GOP's agenda.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Jan '11 22:55
    Originally posted by kmax87
    So after flapping their gums about repeal and reform, their bluff gets called, then what? Does this damage the GOP's credibility as the alternate party of change? Does this fuel a Tea Party resurgence as people skeptical of the two party system see that regardless of rhetoric, short of a revolution of sorts, Washington is never going to change the way it does ...[text shortened]... GOP stalwarts is nothing more than a smokescreen, the last thing in fact on the GOP's agenda.
    I don't see how. IF a Republican got elected President in 2012 (an unlikely scenario) with a Republican Congress and they failed to substantially repeal the health care reform, then yes.
  10. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    03 Jan '11 23:07
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I don't see how. IF a Republican got elected President in 2012 (an unlikely scenario) with a Republican Congress and they failed to substantially repeal the health care reform, then yes.
    You don't buy into America bouncing back to a more virulent conservatism as a reaction to all the spending that has happened regardless of the need to have done so? You don't think Beck's Restoring Honor movement along with the Black Robe Regiment is a tip of the ice-berg that typifies what America does best in a perceived crises; ie - turn to God and follow the fiscally conservative bandwagon?
  11. 03 Jan '11 23:11
    Originally posted by kmax87
    You don't buy into America bouncing back to a more virulent conservatism as a reaction to all the spending that has happened regardless of the need to have done so? You don't think Beck's Restoring Honor movement along with the Black Robe Regiment is a tip of the ice-berg that typifies what America does best in a perceived crises; ie - turn to God and follow the fiscally conservative bandwagon?
    Hey... how much has America spent on worthless wars?
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    03 Jan '11 23:16
    Originally posted by kmax87
    You don't buy into America bouncing back to a more virulent conservatism as a reaction to all the spending that has happened regardless of the need to have done so? You don't think Beck's Restoring Honor movement along with the Black Robe Regiment is a tip of the ice-berg that typifies what America does best in a perceived crises; ie - turn to God and follow the fiscally conservative bandwagon?
    No, I don't and neither should you given polls like this: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20027036-503544.html

    Beck is preaching to a virulent minority.
  13. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    03 Jan '11 23:20
    Originally posted by LordAlayen
    Hey... how much has America spent on worthless wars?
    its good to fight evil isn't it? But nationalized health care and corporate socialism, now that's just something else!
  14. 03 Jan '11 23:26
    Originally posted by kmax87
    its good to fight evil isn't it? But nationalized health care and corporate socialism, now that's just something else!
    Not really. Not if you pay a lot of money to lose.
  15. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    03 Jan '11 23:31
    Originally posted by kmax87
    So after flapping their gums about repeal and reform, their bluff gets called, then what? Does this damage the GOP's credibility as the alternate party of change? Does this fuel a Tea Party resurgence as people skeptical of the two party system see that regardless of rhetoric, short of a revolution of sorts, Washington is never going to change the way it does ...[text shortened]... GOP stalwarts is nothing more than a smokescreen, the last thing in fact on the GOP's agenda.
    Politically I think the GOP has to do this, first because they campaigned on it, but also because it keeps them from owning any part of Obamacare. Conservatives hate Obamacare. Period. So far it's entirely owned by the Dems, and the GOP needs to keep it that way.

    After the GOP fails to get repeal, they can set out to try to de-fund it and obstruct its implementation until 2012 when conservative hatred of Obamacare can play to their advantage during the election.