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  1. 01 Nov '12 00:53
    This is the Republican party. Keep voting Republican and your 13-yr old daughter impregnated during rape will be forced by the government against her will to give birth to the rapist's child.

    Romney has said he will appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will overturn Roe v. Wade. When so overturned, that will open the door for the Republican religious fundamentalists in the House and Senate to ram through a federal ban on abortion including in cases of rape and incest.

    GOP hopeful: 'Rape thing' not cause for abortion

    OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — A Republican congressional candidate says abortion should not be legal, even when it involves "the rape thing," according to audio provided Wednesday to The Associated Press.

    An activist working on behalf of liberal group FUSE Washington asked questions of Republican hopeful John Koster during a fundraiser Sunday. Koster said he does not oppose abortion when the life of the mother is in danger but then explains he would oppose it when it involves rape or incest.

    Koster twice uses the phrase "the rape thing" when describing his views, first saying that he knows a woman who was raped and gave up the child for adoption without any regrets.

    "But on the rape thing, it's like, how does putting more violence onto a woman's body and taking the life of an innocent child that's a consequence of this crime, how does that make it better?" Koster said in the exchange.

    Koster's campaign manager, Larry Stickney, says the candidate has long been a proponent of dealing strongly with sex offenders. He noted that Koster worked in the state legislature on legislation to crack down on sex offenders and has daughters of his own.

    "To imply that he's cavalier about the issue is preposterous," Stickney said.

    Koster is locked in a competitive House race against Democrat Suzan DelBene.

    Republicans have been beleaguered this year by comments about rape that some have deemed offensive. Rep. Todd Akin, R-Mo., who is challenging Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill, said women's bodies have ways of avoiding pregnancy in cases of "legitimate rape."

    More recently, Indiana GOP candidate Richard Mourdock has been criticized for saying that pregnancy resulting from rape is God's will.

    Collin Jergens, a spokesman at the advocacy group FUSE Washington, said one of the group's activists went to the fundraiser to ask Koster about the issue of abortion. Democrats have been trying to portray Koster as out of touch with the district, which stretches from areas east of Seattle to the border with Canada, and they have focused particularly on his stance on social issues.

    Sara Kiesler, a spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood Votes Northwest, said the Koster's remarks are proof that he shouldn't be involved in a woman's decision about her pregnancy.

    "My gut reaction was that rape is violence, and that rape is a crime, and that his choice of words diminishes that violence," Kiesler said.

    http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/GOP-hopeful-rape-thing-not-cause-for-abortion-3997812.php
  2. 01 Nov '12 16:43
    The RNC is apparently sneaking money into Missouri to help Akin.
  3. 01 Nov '12 16:48
    And yet another Republican says something stupid about rape.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/01/1149620/-Hooray-It-s-Republican-says-something-stupid-about-rape-o-clock-again
  4. 01 Nov '12 19:13
    Originally posted by moon1969
    This is the Republican party. Keep voting Republican and your 13-yr old daughter impregnated during rape will be forced by the government against her will to give birth to the rapist's child.

    Romney has said he will appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will overturn Roe v. Wade. When so overturned, that will open the door for the Republican religiou ...[text shortened]... tics/article/GOP-hopeful-rape-thing-not-cause-for-abortion-3997812.php
    Let's suppose that abortion becomes illegal again in the United States.
    Outlawing abortion would not end all abortions just as Prohibition did not
    end all consumption of alcoholic beverages in the United States.
    But outlawing abortion would make it more costly, difficult, and dangerous
    for most American women and girls to obtain abortions.

    An affluent man with a 13 year old daughter who was impregnated by rape
    could afford to take her for a legal abortion outside the United States or perhaps
    afford to bribe a qualified doctor to perform an illegal abortion in the United States.

    Shana Alexander (1925-2005) was a liberal American journalist. She revealed
    that she had been raped (which she never reported to the police), though she
    preferred not to describe the details. She seemed to rationalize her rape as a
    common female experience, about which it was normal for her to feel ashamed.
    While she was not impregnated by her rape, Shana Alexander once obtained
    an illegal abortion by paying a large amount of money to a qualified doctor.
    If that doctor had been unwilling to do it, she was ready to risk her life by having
    her abortion performed by someone of unknown or dubious qualifications.

    Regarding Richard Mourdock's comment, if a woman or a girl is supposed to
    accept that being impregnated by rape is "God's will", should she also accept
    that being raped in the first place is also "God's will"?
  5. 01 Nov '12 19:15
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Let's suppose that abortion becomes illegal again in the United States.
    Outlawing abortion would not end all abortions just as Prohibition did not
    end all consumption of alcoholic beverages in the United States.
    But outlawing abortion would make it more costly, difficult, and dangerous
    for most American women and girls to obtain abortions.

    An afflu ...[text shortened]... ill", should she also accept
    that being raped in the first place is also "God's will"?
    In the fundy Calvinist view everything is God's will, so the answer is yes. You're supposed to take everything as a blessing.
  6. 01 Nov '12 19:51
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    In the fundy Calvinist view everything is God's will, so the answer is yes.
    You're supposed to take everything as a blessing.
    On 6 March 1986, three men broke into the Ealing Vicarage, with the original
    aim of burglary. But that changed when they discovered the presence of an
    attractive young lady, Jill Saward, the vicar's daughter, who was still a virgin.
    While her father and boyfriend were tied up nearby and unable to protect her,
    she was raped by these men, who seemed to take delight in 'deflowering' her.
    During her rapes, she kept praying that she would not be impregnated,
    particularly given her religious belief that abortion was wrong, and she later was
    thankful that it was not God's will that she should give birth to her rapist's baby.

    While she's a conservative Christian, Jill Saward initially did not regard her rapes
    as any kind of 'blessing'. Given her traditional upbringing, after being raped
    she regarded herself as 'damaged goods', unworthy of ever being married, and
    she assumed that her reputation and her life had been ruined. To her amazement,
    her boyfriend still proposed to her, though she decided to marry another man.
    Jill Saward gave credit to her Christian faith for helping her to recover well.

    When the judge passed sentence upon the men who had been convicted of
    burglary and rape, he assigned harsher punishment for burglary than for rape.
    The judge explained, "The trauma suffered by the victim (Jill Saward) was not
    so very great." His comment infuriated Jill Saward, motivating her to launch
    a campaign for more compassionate treatment of rape victims.
  7. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    01 Nov '12 20:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by moon1969
    This is the Republican party. Keep voting Republican and your 13-yr old daughter impregnated during rape will be forced by the government against her will to give birth to the rapist's child.

    Romney has said he will appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will overturn Roe v. Wade. When so overturned, that will open the door for the Republican religiou tics/article/GOP-hopeful-rape-thing-not-cause-for-abortion-3997812.php
    There you go again...
  8. 01 Nov '12 20:42
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    On 6 March 1986, three men broke into the Ealing Vicarage, with the original
    aim of burglary. But that changed when they discovered the presence of an
    attractive young lady, Jill Saward, the vicar's daughter, who was still a virgin.
    While her father and boyfriend were tied up nearby and unable to protect her,
    she was raped by these men, who seemed to ...[text shortened]... tivating her to launch
    a campaign for more compassionate treatment of rape victims.
    That is terrible!!! I don't know how in the world there can be someone in the position of a judge that does not know how rape affects people. I think a rapist should recieve the same sentence as someone that commits first degree murder.
  9. 01 Nov '12 21:34 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    That is terrible!!! I don't know how in the world there can be someone in the position of a judge that does not know how rape affects people. I think a rapist should recieve the same sentence as someone that commits first degree murder.
    "I don't know how in the world there can be someone in the position
    of a judge that does not know how rape affects people."
    --Joe Beyser

    For many years, some women's groups and advocates for victims' rights have
    complained that more than a few (usually male) judges tend to be unsympathetic
    toward rape victims and even like to belittle what these victims have suffered.
    It's not hard to find sexist comments by judges that don't seem too far removed
    from the classic excuse that a pretty girl must have been 'asking for it' (rape) just
    because she was wearing a short skirt, which excited and provoked her rapist.

    For example, Judge John Prosser sentenced a convicted rapist (age 15) to only
    three years' probation and ordered him to pay 500 GBP as 'compensation' to his
    victim, a 15 year old schoolgirl. Celebrating his 15th birthday, the lad had asked
    the girl for a kiss. After saying 'no' (as she testified while sobbing in court), she
    was seized, carried off to a secluded area, thrown down to the ground, and raped.
    (The lad seemed to regard sexual intercourse with the girl as his 'birthday treat'.)
    When passing sentence, the judge expressed his concern that punishing the rapist
    too harshly (by sending him to a place of detention) might do serious harm to him.
    The judge did not seem to believe that serious harm had been done to the victim.
    The judge gave this explanation for awarding her 500 GBP: "It will give this girl
    the chance of a good holiday to help her get over the trauma." Her father called
    the judge's leniant sentence 'disgraceful' and said: "This (rape) has ruined my
    daughter's life--what difference will a fortnight in the sun make to her?"
    The girl remained terrified of her rapist (who 'showed no remorse' according to
    the police), who could continue to live freely near her home. Jill Radford, a
    women's rights advocate, said of the judge: "He is obviously unaware of the
    nature of rape and sexual violence and its potential long-lasting impact."

    In another case, while sentencing a convicted rapist to 3.5 years in prison,
    Judge Michael Addison told him, who had raped a woman on a date: "This is
    not in my view the more serious type of rape ... the rape of a total stranger."

    "I think a rapist should receive the same sentence as someone that commits
    first degree murder."
    --Joe Beyser

    If rape and 'first degree murder' had equal punishments, then why should a rapist
    not kill his victim--eliminating a vital witness--after he had finished raping her?
    Rape is a terrible crime, and some victims never recover from the consequences,
    but most victims still feel there's something worthwhile in continuing to live.
    In contrast, murder is a final outcome, and no victim could ever recover from it.

    In her 2010 memoir, _Warum war Ich Bloss ein Maedchen?_, Gabriele Koepp
    revealed that in 1945, as a 15 year old German schoolgirl (who was a virgin)
    she was raped many times by Soviet soldiers. (Some rape victims died from
    their internal injuries or by being murdered after the soldiers had enjoyed them.)
    In some ways, Gabriele Koepp never could recover from her rapes. She could
    not bear the prospect of ever becoming intimate with a man, so romance and
    marriage never crossed her path. To this day, she continues to have trouble
    sleeping, often having to relive her rapes in her nightmares. Yet she was able
    to pursue a career as a scientist with some distinction and to enjoy a life that's
    fulfilling in culture, friendships, and experiences outside of romance and sex.
    Would she have been better off if she had been murdered in 1945?
  10. 01 Nov '12 23:39
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    "I don't know how in the world there can be someone in the position
    of a judge that does not know how rape affects people."
    --Joe Beyser

    For many years, some women's groups and advocates for victims' rights have
    complained that more than a few (usually male) judges tend to be unsympathetic
    toward rape victims and even like to belittle what these v ...[text shortened]... she have been better off if she had been murdered in 1945?
    You make a good point that if someone is going to rape and then have the risk of the same sentence of murder then they may kill the victim. I do believe a lot of rapists would kill their victims to silence them if there is no more at risk than what they have already done. Not a good answer on that as far as punishment goes.
  11. 02 Nov '12 00:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    You make a good point that if someone is going to rape and then have the risk of the same sentence of murder then they may kill the victim. I do believe a lot of rapists would kill their victims to silence them if there is no more at risk than what they have already done. Not a good answer on that as far as punishment goes.
    It's not unusual for people (apparently men more often than women) to make
    comments on rape (a contentious subject) without thinking carefully enough.
    (I have heard 'knee-jerk' comments of 'Castrate rapists!' from men and women.)

    Even if a prospective rapist knows that the criminal punishment for rape is harsh,
    he might still proceed to rape if he believes that his risks of being reported,
    arrested, and convicted for rape are low enough. In the UK there's a widely
    quoted statistic that only 6% of rapes reported to the police lead eventually to
    a conviction of rape (sometimes there's a conviction on some lesser charge).
    Given that it's generally accepted that most women and girls never report their
    rapes (particularly if not in a stereotypical context of rape by a violent stranger)
    to the police, a man who forces himself upon a woman on a date might well
    assume that it's extremely unlikely that he would be convicted of raping her.
    Indeed, a rape victim's often discouraged from seeking 'justice' in the system
    because she's afraid that what could happen to her (attacks on her reputation,
    threats of retaliation) after her rape might be even worse than her rape itself.

    For whatever it's worth, some 'pro-life' women, who believe that abortion's morally
    wrong and should be illegal, have admitted to me that they would make a quiet
    exception--have an abortion--for themselves if they were impregnated by rape.
    Being compelled to give birth to her rapist's baby would likely delay, complicate,
    or reduce a rape victim's prospects for recovery in terms of her mental health.
  12. 02 Nov '12 02:00
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    It's not unusual for people (apparently men more often than women) to make
    comments on rape (a contentious subject) without thinking carefully enough.
    (I have heard 'knee-jerk' comments of 'Castrate rapists!' from men and women.)

    Even if a prospective rapist knows that the criminal punishment for rape is harsh,
    he might still proceed to rape if he be ...[text shortened]... reduce a rape victim's prospects for recovery in terms of her mental health.
    You are right about the knee jerk reaction. I am surprized that we do not hear more about fathers of victimized daughters going to prison for taking action against the rapists. On one hand the baby did nothing wrong but on the other the victim will suffer more. If these pro life women that you speak of are pro life due to religious reasons then I can see them making the exception. To them god should have protected them and not allowed it to happen.
  13. Donation bbarr
    Chief Justice
    02 Nov '12 02:42
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Let's suppose that abortion becomes illegal again in the United States.
    Outlawing abortion would not end all abortions just as Prohibition did not
    end all consumption of alcoholic beverages in the United States.
    But outlawing abortion would make it more costly, difficult, and dangerous
    for most American women and girls to obtain abortions.

    An afflu ...[text shortened]... ill", should she also accept
    that being raped in the first place is also "God's will"?
    When life gives a woman rape, God makes rape-o-nade. Isn't that right, GOP scumbags?
  14. 02 Nov '12 03:32
    Originally posted by bbarr
    When life gives a woman rape, God makes rape-o-nade. Isn't that right, GOP scumbags?
    You know there is a very simple solution to this problem don't you?
  15. 02 Nov '12 05:34
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    You are right about the knee jerk reaction. I am surprized that we do not hear more about fathers of victimized daughters going to prison for taking action against the rapists. On one hand the baby did nothing wrong but on the other the victim will suffer more. If these pro life women that you speak of are pro life due to religious reasons then I can see them making the exception. To them god should have protected them and not allowed it to happen.
    "I am surprised that we do not hear more about fathers of victimized
    daughters going to prison for taking action against the rapists."
    --Joe Beyser

    If a man took illegal violent action against his daughter's rapist and therefore
    was imprisoned, how would that help her, particularly if she was pregnant?
    Would that not be putting his desire for revenge ahead of her need for him?

    One evening during 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland, some Royal Marines on
    patrol heard a 14 year old girl scream. They were able to reach the frightened
    girl just before she was going to be raped. Some of the soldiers asked their
    sergeant for permission to beat up the attempted rapist before handing him
    over to the police. After discovering that the girl's father was the local PIRA
    commander, however, the sergeant decided simply to record the attempted
    rapist's name and address before releasing him. Then the Royal Marines
    escorted the girl home. Her father said something like, "I never expected to
    see the day when I'd welcome any British soldier into our home. My poor girl,
    what have these soldiers done to you?" So she explained how the Royal Marines
    had saved her from rape. The PIRA commander asked the British sergeant,
    'Do you know if the would-be rapist's in police custody now?' 'No, I let him go.'
    "Why'd you do that? Don't you take my daughter's attempted rape seriously?"
    "Yes, and I assumed that you would prefer it if her would-be rapist was not in
    police custody. Would you like to know his name and address?" "Yes, I would
    indeed. You are right that I would prefer to get my own hands upon the rapist."
    After he learned the would-be rapist's name and address, the PIRA commander
    said, "I never thought I'd ever say this to a British soldier, but thanks, Marine.
    I'll take care of it from here. You don't have to worry about anything now."
    That Royal Marine patrol then enjoyed extraordinary quiet, almost peace, for
    the rest of its tour of duty. Apparently, the PIRA commander had ordered
    everyone in his area of authority not to attack or even to harass those particular
    Royal Marines in any way. But when a new patrol of British soldiers arrived as
    replacements, as usual it was promptly ambushed and suffered casualties.
    As for the man who had been foolish enough to attempt to rape the PIRA
    commander's daughter, his castrated corpse was discovered about a week
    after the Royal Marines had released him.