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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 02:00
    Government is to Social Engineering as Dynamite is to Decorating

    Government is to Responsible as a Whore is to Virtue

    On a scale of 1 to 10, Left to Right...

    1 = Left = Totalitarianism - Government rules every aspect; is all-powerful
    ...
    ...
    10 = Right = Anarchy - Government has no role or power.

    Where do you fall on this line and why?

    I am about an eight. I truly believe that government sucks the energy and vitality out of a PERSON like a vampire on steroids.
  2. 13 Feb '10 02:02
    Originally posted by StarValleyWy
    Government is to Social Engineering as Dynamite is to Decorating

    Government is to Responsible as a Whore is to Virtue

    On a scale of 1 to 10, Left to Right...

    1 = Left = Totalitarianism - Government rules every aspect; is all-powerful
    ...
    ...
    10 = Right = Anarchy - Government has no role or power.

    Where do you fall on this line and why?
    ...[text shortened]... elieve that government sucks the energy and vitality out of a PERSON like a vampire on steroids.
    That's a bit of a flawed scale. While there is a totalitarian left, traditional anarchism is also very left-wing, and there are plenty of right-wing authoritarian and totalitarian figures out there.
  3. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 02:05 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by scherzo
    That's a bit of a flawed scale. While there is a totalitarian left, traditional anarchism is also very left-wing, and there are plenty of right-wing authoritarian and totalitarian figures out there.
    Um.... It's just a scale.

    Or are you going to argue that communist USSR and communist Pol Pot were right wing, non-socialist plots designed only to to fool us? For those who may be "thought challenged"... Was Pol Pot a "totalitarian" and if not, what was the best way to keep from being evacuated to a farm or shot? Maybe by winning an essay contest on "The Meaning Of Personal Freedom In Cambodia"?
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Feb '10 02:52
    Originally posted by StarValleyWy
    On a scale of 1 to 10, Left to Right...

    1 = Left = Totalitarianism - Government rules every aspect; is all-powerful
    ...
    ...
    10 = Right = Anarchy - Government has no role or power.
    You are saddling "the left" with the likes of - say - Soeharto, Alfredo Stroessner, Park Chung-hee, Anastasio Somoza García?
  5. 13 Feb '10 02:57
    Originally posted by StarValleyWy
    Um.... It's just a scale.

    Or are you going to argue that communist USSR and communist Pol Pot were right wing, non-socialist plots designed only to to fool us? For those who may be "thought challenged"... Was Pol Pot a "totalitarian" and if not, what was the best way to keep from being evacuated to a farm or shot? Maybe by winning an essay contest on "The Meaning Of Personal Freedom In Cambodia"?
    I could point out people such as Mussolini, Hitler, Peron, and Franco, who were totalitarian right-wingers, or I could point out people like Gandhi, Kropotkin, or Mandela, who were (are) strongly opposed to totalitarianism despite being leftists.
  6. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 02:58
    Originally posted by FMF
    You are saddling "the left" with the likes of - say - Soeharto, Alfredo Stroessner, Park Chung-hee, Anastasio Somoza García?
    Totalitarianism is totalitarianism. Big government leads to bigger, leads to bigger leads to .... what?

    Is there an instance in recorded history of a government that insisted that "government is the answer" that grew smaller in any way?

    The word "Total" is at the root of the discussion. Total Government is just that.

    Anarchy is the rejection of government.

    The left has tried for years to divorce itself from totalitarianism. Good luck on that.
  7. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 03:01
    Originally posted by scherzo
    I could point out people such as Mussolini, Hitler, Peron, and Franco, who were totalitarian right-wingers, or I could point out people like Gandhi, Kropotkin, or Mandela, who were (are) strongly opposed to totalitarianism despite being leftists.
    Well, as a "Right Winger", you are full of it. We believe that the government that governs least, governs best. Is the Left for more government or less government?

    I rest my case. The fact that you lefties fall into the totalitarian camp is not my fault.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Feb '10 03:14
    Originally posted by StarValleyWy
    The left has tried for years to divorce itself from totalitarianism.
    So your brand of political science enables you to designate Soeharto, Alfredo Stroessner, Park Chung-hee, Anastasio Somoza García (to name but four) as "left wing"?
  9. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 03:21 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    So your brand of political science enables you to designate Soeharto, Alfredo Stroessner, Park Chung-hee, Anastasio Somoza García (to name but four) as "left wing"?
    Nope. They are totalitarians. I am an American Righty.

    I believe that Government is to Liberty as Arsenic is to City Water.

    In case you miss it, I am playing with the "mightiest of tools", as Orwell defined it. Words matter. Why should we let the left define us as totalitarians in the cases you mention? By any rational use of language, they are all on the same side as say... Obama and/or the USSR; they all want significant government control of the economy and most aspects of daily life.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Feb '10 03:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by StarValleyWy
    I am playing with the "mightiest of tools", as Orwell defined it. Words matter.
    Yes. You are playing with words. I respect your belief in personal freedom and favouring of smaller government. But as long as you are just playing around with words - that you have redefined at will - you cannot credibly engage in discourse.

    [Soeharto, Alfredo Stroessner, Park Chung-hee, Anastasio Somoza García are not left wingers, they] are totalitarians

    In your OP you designate, on your scale, totalitarians as "left", and now you seem to be retracting it. You are, indeed, just playing around. And you're even getting your own little audaciously redefined words mixed up. I get it.
  11. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 03:36
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yes. You are playing with words. I respect your belief in personal freedom and favouring of smaller government. But as long as you are just playing around with words - that you have redefined at will - you cannot credibly engage in discourse.

    [b][Soeharto, Alfredo Stroessner, Park Chung-hee, Anastasio Somoza García are not left wingers, they] are totalitarian ...[text shortened]... ound. And you're even getting your own little audaciously redefined words mixed up. I get it.
    Am I retracting it?

    Let me speak plainly. All leftists are totalitarians at heart.

    Those you mention are lefists. They kill with abandon. They are wont of conscience.

    Does that bother you? Is the truth that hard to take?

    It is very simple. Do you favor bigger and bigger (as in Total) government? Or do you want less government? I am a "rightist" and I want less government. Can I ever become a totalitarian? Can you?
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Feb '10 03:41
    Originally posted by StarValleyWy
    All leftists are totalitarians at heart.
    Poppycock. As I suspected, you do not know what the words you use mean. You are projecting your own bogie men stuff onto people with whom you diasagree, and you have to twist commonly understood vocabulary to make it work. You are being a rascal. Good luck to you. Hopefully you will continue to do your rascally thing in good humour and not become too drab about it.
  13. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 03:47
    Originally posted by FMF
    Poppycock. As I suspected, you do not know what the words you use mean. You are projecting your own bogie men stuff onto people with whom you diasagree, and you have to twist commonly understood vocabulary to make it work. You are being a rascal. Good luck to you. Hopefully you will continue to do your rascally thing in good humour and not become too drab about it.
    Well, life is a comedy.

    I digress. About this "poppycock" thing. What on earth is a "poppycock" and could I have an agreeable dinner with the thing in attendance?

    I am using quite simple scale and language to point out that the left has "poppycocked" rational language to supplement their silly notions of "logic".

    1 = Total Government
    ...

    ...

    10 = No Government

    I am an 8.

    I am a rightist. Note: If you get confused, just go from left to right on a scale of 1 to 10 as to "Totalitarianism" vs "Anarchy".

    Don't hurt yourself thinking about this. You have been mind-wiped for too long. You have no hope of envisioning reality.
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    13 Feb '10 03:57
    Originally posted by StarValleyWy
    Don't hurt yourself thinking about this. You have been mind-wiped for too long. You have no hope of envisioning reality.
    I have no hope of envisioning reality? Gosh. How droll. More wielding of the "mightiest of tools" eh?

    You place yourself at 8 so presumably, according to your brand of political autism, the fact that you do not place yourself at 10 makes you - to some degree - closer to supporting totalitariansim than those at 9 or 10, which makes you relatively "leftist", and, of course, "All leftists are totalitarians at heart", so there we have it.
  15. Standard member StarValleyWy
    BentnevolentDictater
    13 Feb '10 04:03
    Originally posted by FMF
    I have no hope of envisioning reality? Gosh. How droll. More wielding of the "mightiest of tools" eh?

    You place yourself at 8 so presumably, according to your brand of political autism, the fact that you do not place yourself at 10 makes you - to some degree - closer to supporting totalitariansim than those at 9 or 10, which makes you relatively "leftist", and, of course, "All leftists are totalitarians at heart", so there we have it.
    You get a solid D in logic.

    I think that a federal government has a role in providing and supplying a defense in the form of a military. I also believe (as per the US constitution) that the federal government has a valid role in commerce, ie, roads, railroads, airlines and the general assurance that commerce shall not be impaired.

    That puts me at about an 8.

    I don't believe that the federal government has the right, nor the moral imperative, to take my money and distribute it to those who give it blow jobs on demand.