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Debates Forum

  1. 08 Jan '16 00:43
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/28/tamir-rice-grand-jury-announcement-expected-monday/
  2. 08 Jan '16 13:40
    Sounds good to me.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    08 Jan '16 14:03
    Other than some inconsistencies in the officers' story (which would hardly be a basis for conviction), it's hard to see how they possibly could have gotten a criminal conviction in that case. Civil liability, perhaps, but is there any evidence that the officers were criminally negligent? Doesn't seem like it.
  4. 08 Jan '16 15:46
    Originally posted by sh76
    Other than some inconsistencies in the officers' story (which would hardly be a basis for conviction), it's hard to see how they possibly could have gotten a criminal conviction in that case. Civil liability, perhaps, but is there any evidence that the officers were criminally negligent? Doesn't seem like it.
    an officer shot a kid. lethally. and you can get away with "oops"?

    not knowing the details of a situation doesn't absolve you of the crime. "i didn't see him" doesn't fly when you run over someone with your car.

    don't know why i bother, you live in a country where you can murder anyone if you just convince people you feared for your life. just shout "he's coming right for us!"
  5. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    08 Jan '16 17:10
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/12/28/tamir-rice-grand-jury-announcement-expected-monday/
    The right decision. The kids parents are at fault for not protecting their son and not teaching him to not point guns at other people.
  6. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    08 Jan '16 18:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The right decision. The kids parents are at fault for not protecting their son and not teaching him to not point guns at other people.
    Not enough evidence to convict the killer (how much would we need?) , but enough evidence for RJH to convict the 12 year old victim and his parents (how little is enough?).
  7. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 Jan '16 18:21
    Originally posted by sh76
    Other than some inconsistencies in the officers' story (which would hardly be a basis for conviction), it's hard to see how they possibly could have gotten a criminal conviction in that case. Civil liability, perhaps, but is there any evidence that the officers were criminally negligent? Doesn't seem like it.
    The DA misconduct in this case was appalling. He consistently made public evidence from the Grand Jury that was favorable to the officers while keeping secret incriminating evidence. It's pretty obvious he never tried to get an indictment.

    The US is getting to be an odd country; 12 year old black kids with pellet guns can be shot down in two seconds but right wing "militia" members who point rifles at law enforcement personnel and state that they would have killed them all if they made a "false move" are never punished.
  8. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    08 Jan '16 19:18
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Not enough evidence to convict the killer (how much would we need?) , but enough evidence for RJH to convict the 12 year old victim and his parents (how little is enough?).
    I did not convict anyone of a crime. I simply placed the blame for the death where it belongs.
  9. 08 Jan '16 19:24
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The DA misconduct in this case was appalling. He consistently made public evidence from the Grand Jury that was favorable to the officers while keeping secret incriminating evidence. It's pretty obvious he never tried to get an indictment.

    The US is getting to be an odd country; 12 year old black kids with pellet guns can be shot down in two seconds b ...[text shortened]... l and state that they would have killed them all if they made a "false move" are never punished.
    No one should point guns (real or fake) at law enforcement officials. When this rule is violated, law enforcement officials should be able to respond with force and not fear that they will be charged with crime.
  10. 08 Jan '16 22:27
    Originally posted by quackquack
    No one should point guns (real or fake) at law enforcement officials. When this rule is violated, law enforcement officials should be able to respond with force and not fear that they will be charged with crime.
    yes, we must hold 12 year olds accountable for their actions.

    if you're old enough to play in the park, you are old enough to understand consequences.


    also, he was shot before threatening the cop in either way. not that it would have mattered because, you know, he was 12. the kid. not the cop. the cop only had the mental stability of a 12 year old.
  11. 09 Jan '16 11:05
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    yes, we must hold 12 year olds accountable for their actions.

    if you're old enough to play in the park, you are old enough to understand consequences.


    also, he was shot before threatening the cop in either way. not that it would have mattered because, you know, he was 12. the kid. not the cop. the cop only had the mental stability of a 12 year old.
    A twelve year old that weighed 175 lbs. and looked like a large teen.
  12. 09 Jan '16 11:18
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    A twelve year old that weighed 175 lbs. and looked like a large teen.
    Yeah, large teens are known to murder cops quite frequently.
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    09 Jan '16 11:54
    Originally posted by FishHead111
    A twelve year old that weighed 175 lbs. and looked like a large teen.
    The autopsy report said he was 5'7" and 195 lbs "whose appearance is consistent with the reported age of 12 years or older".http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/tamir_rice_autopsy_shows_he_wa.html

    In any event, it's farfetched to imagine that the officer who fired could have made any type of determination as regards his age in the less than two seconds he decided to fire after the police cruiser stopped.
  14. 09 Jan '16 11:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The autopsy report said he was 5'7" and 195 lbs "whose appearance is consistent with the reported age of 12 years or older".http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/tamir_rice_autopsy_shows_he_wa.html

    In any event, it's farfetched to imagine that the officer who fired could have made any type of determination as regards his age in the less than two seconds he decided to fire after the police cruiser stopped.
    5'7" and 195 lbs ?
    He must have looked like a sumo wrestler.
    Why are all the pictures of him from when he was younger and thin?
    I googled images of the little darling, got some nice photos of him throwing gang signs, I'm sure he was going to grow up to be a doctor or astronaut.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    09 Jan '16 12:00
    Some interesting information:

    The Cleveland police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice had issues with handling guns during his brief tenure with a suburban police department.

    A Nov. 29, 2012 letter contained in Tim Loehmann's personnel file from the Independence Police Department says that during firearms qualification training he was "distracted" and "weepy."

    "He could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal," according to the letter written by Deputy Chief Jim Polak of the Independence police.

    The letter recommended that the department part ways with Loehmann, who went on to become a police officer with the Cleveland Division of Police.

    "I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct the deficiencies," Polak said.

    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_officer_who_s.html