Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    16 Oct '17 16:29
    Harvey is no saint for sure, but what about all those women who said nothing until Weinstein was of no help to them?

    This is not about the women who spoke out from the beginning, this is about the greedy women who figured it would be better if they put out and made Harvey happy so they might benefit from his generosity. I'll bet some of them ended up talking crap about him in the end only because there was nothing they could gain by associating themselves with Harvey. Where were they when speaking up really mattered?

    It may not be politically correct to say, but a lot of those women speaking out now should be condemned for enabling Harvey to move on to harass countless other women because they said nothing until years later when there was no downside to doing so. The women who spoke out from the beginning had courage, but lets be honest. All the others were cowards. They were more like whores than victims. The Joanie come lately women who alleged rape recently are probably lying in hopes for an out of court settlement.
  2. Joined
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    16 Oct '17 16:32
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    Harvey is no saint for sure, but what about all those women who said nothing until Weinstein was of no help to them?

    This is not about the women who spoke out from the beginning, this is about the greedy women who figured it would be better if they put out and made Harvey happy so they might benefit from his generosity. I'll bet some of them ended up ...[text shortened]... tely women who alleged rape recently are probably lying in hopes for an out of court settlement.
    This is not a woman/man issue. The issue is elitist power in Hollywood, the press, and in Washington knowing full well about HW but choosing to do nothing about it because of his political leanings.

    That is really the big story here, the willingness to violate our rights based on someone being powerful enough politically.

    And this is just the tip of the iceburg.
  3. Joined
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    16 Oct '17 16:41
    Originally posted by @whodey
    This is not a woman/man issue. The issue is elitist power in Hollywood, the press, and in Washington knowing full well about HW but choosing to do nothing about it because of his political leanings.

    That is really the big story here, the willingness to violate our rights based on someone being powerful enough politically.

    And this is just the tip of the iceburg.
    They all enabled Weinstein. That is my point. Nobody is condemning them for enabling him, but they jump at every chance to demonize him and nobody else. This also could be another way of reminding Trump that the news media could have him impeached the same way they got Weinstein fired.

    Remember when Trump was being trashed by the news media over Russiagate? Trump flip flopped on Afghanistan and kept troops there and Russiagate faded away quickly after that. Trump tried to fight the corporate news media and lost. Now all they have to do is remind him of how powerless he really is. Harvey helps Trump realize how powerless he really is. The news media is all powerful in this country.
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    16 Oct '17 16:59
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    They all enabled Weinstein. That is my point. Nobody is condemning them for enabling him, but they jump at every chance to demonize him and nobody else. This also could be another way of reminding Trump that the news media could have him impeached the same way they got Weinstein fired.

    Remember when Trump was being trashed by the news media over Rus ...[text shortened]... helps Trump realize how powerless he really is. The news media is all powerful in this country.
    Nobody else? You maybe are forgetting Bill Cosby, or Woodie Allen?

    My wife lived in Venice beach, 5 gen actually and her dad was a big band drummer and she met Cosby back in the 60's. She was totally turned off by his arrogance even then and he did try to pick her up. She was maybe 20.
  5. Standard membervivify
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    16 Oct '17 17:39
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    I'll bet some of them ended up talking crap about him in the end only because there was nothing they could gain by associating themselves with Harvey. Where were they when speaking up really mattered?
    Hmm, doesn't that sound like a certain political party we know?
  6. Standard membervivify
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    16 Oct '17 17:40
    Originally posted by @whodey
    That is really the big story here, the willingness to violate our rights based on someone being powerful enough politically.
    The hypocrisy is strong is in this one.
  7. Standard membervivify
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    16 Oct '17 17:453 edits
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    They were more like whores than victims. The Joanie come lately women who alleged rape recently are probably lying in hopes for an out of court settlement.
    So it was the victims' fault, the victims were whores, and the victims are liars.

    Victim-blaming 101. I don't know why I'm surprised that conservatives are still this evil.
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    16 Oct '17 19:50
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    Harvey is no saint for sure, but what about all those women who said nothing until Weinstein was of no help to them?

    This is not about the women who spoke out from the beginning, this is about the greedy women who figured it would be better if they put out and made Harvey happy so they might benefit from his generosity. I'll bet some of them ended up ...[text shortened]... tely women who alleged rape recently are probably lying in hopes for an out of court settlement.
    Yes, poor old Harvey, having to contend with all those women wanting his body. Jebesus you are fukked up. Harvey is the crim here, not the victims.
  9. Joined
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    16 Oct '17 23:51
    Originally posted by @vivify
    So it was the victims' fault, the victims were whores, and the victims are liars.

    Victim-blaming 101. I don't know why I'm surprised that conservatives are still this evil.
    not conservatives but this particular ashole. weinstein was a democrat, in case you forgot.

    being a colossal sack of sht transcends political affiliation.metal brain is not a sack of crap because he is a conservative just as weinstein isn't a sack of crap because he is a democrat. metal brain is a sack of crap because of his total lack of decency. he is a conservative as a hobby.

    you do sound surprised and i also don't know why
  10. Standard membervivify
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    17 Oct '17 00:421 edit
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    not conservatives but this particular ashole. weinstein was a democrat, in case you forgot.

    being a colossal sack of sht transcends political affiliation.metal brain is not a sack of crap because he is a conservative just as weinstein isn't a sack of crap because he is a democrat. metal brain is a sack of crap because of his total lack of decency. he is a conservative as a hobby.

    you do sound surprised and i also don't know why
    I meant the conservatives on this site. like in this thread. The usual suspects are blaming the victims, even though there's audio of Weinstein doing exactly what he's accused of. They're even doing so with the most cliché, textbook examples of scumbags blaming females (she's a whore, she's was greedy, she's a liar, etc.).

    I guess that's what surprised me: just how stereo-typically scumbag-ish they were. It would be like if they were also twirling their mustaches and had a woman tied to some train tracks.

    But you're right. This shouldn't be a Dem/Rep thing. Scumbags are scumbags.
  11. Joined
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    17 Oct '17 02:02
    Hollywood is a cesspool.

    They are pretty much all trash.

    I'll have sex with you if you put me in your movie. It is par for the course.
  12. Standard membershavixmir
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    17 Oct '17 03:28
    The OP brings up a fair point, albeit from a warped angle:

    How did we create a system where people, when forced to choose between speaking out or advancing their careers, choose the latter?

    And believe me, it’s not just women and it’s not just Hollywood.

    How did this sort of systematic abuse come about? And even more importantly: how do you think it can be stopped?
  13. Standard membervivify
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    17 Oct '17 03:52
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    The OP brings up a fair point, albeit from a warped angle:

    How did we create a system where people, when forced to choose between speaking out or advancing their careers, choose the latter?

    And believe me, it’s not just women and it’s not just Hollywood.

    How did this sort of systematic abuse come about? And even more importantly: how do you think it can be stopped?
    It wasn't as simple as that. People feared Weinstein's ability to not only kill their dreams, but ruin the reputation and have their name dragged through the mud, powerless to stop it.

    It's not really a case of people using the popular kid to for their own gain; it was more like complying with a mob boss who could end you with a phone call.

    To be clear, I'm not saying anyone who remained silent about Weinstein is without blame. I'm just saying it was as simple as some people make it out to be.
  14. Joined
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    17 Oct '17 08:52
    Originally posted by @vivify
    I meant the conservatives on this site. like in this thread. The usual suspects are blaming the victims, even though there's audio of Weinstein doing exactly what he's accused of. They're even doing so with the most cliché, textbook examples of scumbags blaming females (she's a whore, she's was greedy, she's a liar, etc.).

    I guess that's what surprised ...[text shortened]... e train tracks.

    But you're right. This shouldn't be a Dem/Rep thing. Scumbags are scumbags.
    even so.

    i don't see sh76 condemning the victims and he probably has elephants on his underwear.

    it's not christians that are pedophiles or are shouting to grieving mothers that their soldier son deserved to die. it's asholes. it's not muslims that are blowing themselves up or driving a truck through a crowd, it's asholes.

    will you ever refer to hitler as "that vegetarian"?


    "I guess that's what surprised me: just how stereo-typically scumbag-ish they were."
    Did it really surprise you? It's metal brain we're talking about. You didn't realize he is an ashole until now?
  15. Zugzwang
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    17 Oct '17 18:251 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify to Shavixmir
    It wasn't as simple as that. People feared Weinstein's ability to not only kill their dreams, but ruin the reputation and have their name dragged through the mud, powerless to stop it.

    It's not really a case of people using the popular kid to for their own gain; it was more like complying with a mob boss who could end you with a phone call ...[text shortened]... Weinstein is without blame. I'm just saying it was as simple as some people make it out to be.
    "I do not believe any blaming of the victim is appropriate under any circumstances."
    --Suzianne (to Drewnogal, page 8, post 8, 'Harvey Weinstein hypocrisy' )

    "To be clear, I'm not saying anyone who remained silent about Weinstein is without blame."
    --Vivify

    So how exactly does Vivify attach blame to the victims who remained silent until recently?

    I would note that there are degrees of 'silence'.
    1) Never telling anyone else at all.
    2) Telling a few close friends or relatives.
    3) In addition, telling some workplace associates (such as one's agent).
    4) Filing an initially confidential complaint with the police.
    5) Going all the way--making a *non-anonymous* public accusation (risking being sued for defamation).

    As far as I can tell, very few of Harvey Weinstein's victims stuck to option 1.
    Most victims chose options 2 or 3. Until recently, almost no victims chose 4 or 5.
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