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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Apr '10 12:05
    After the brutal past that the population of Haiti had to endure, the latest catastrophe being the earthquake, they are trying really hard to reconstruct their civil society and achieving a dignified standard of living.

    Worker are trying to fight for their rights, and organizing (just like the haitian people did in the time of Jean-Bertrand Aristide first election) but they are being viciously prevented of doing so.

    One of the many hands that is putting a stop on their freedom of assembly is US military.
    This got me all confused: I mean, the talks I've heard coming from the caring world is that after the earthquake the welfare of the Haitian people would be the top priority, but this seems to be a very direct contradiction to those statements.

    Can someone enlighten me on this, please?
    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5048&updaterx=2010-04-28+23%3A42%3A09
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    29 Apr '10 15:26
    It seems to me that the Marines are enforcing the law to keep order. It's a law in Haiti that business owners don't have to work with unions.

    What is your recommendation? No policing?
  3. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Apr '10 15:29
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    It seems to me that the Marines are enforcing the law to keep order. It's a law in Haiti that business owners don't have to work with unions.

    What is your recommendation? No policing?
    Do you know how that law came to be?

    My recommendations are that outside forces shouldn't meddle in other countries unless those countries request it.
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    29 Apr '10 16:11
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Do you know how that law came to be?

    My recommendations are that outside forces shouldn't meddle in other countries unless those countries request it.
    Did Haiti invite anyone to help after the earthquake?
  5. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    29 Apr '10 16:13
    Haiti did ask for aid from the US.

    Appeals for humanitarian aid were issued by many aid organisations, the United Nations[104] and president René Préval. Raymond Joseph, Haiti's ambassador to the United States,[105] and his nephew, singer Wyclef Jean,[106] who was called upon by Préval to become a "roving ambassador" for Haiti,[107] also pleaded for aid and donations.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earthquake#Early_response
  6. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Apr '10 16:15
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Haiti did ask for aid from the US.

    Appeals for humanitarian aid were issued by many aid organisations, the United Nations[104] and president René Préval. Raymond Joseph, Haiti's ambassador to the United States,[105] and his nephew, singer Wyclef Jean,[106] who was called upon by Préval to become a "roving ambassador" for Haiti,[107] also pleaded ...[text shortened]... r aid and donations.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Haiti_earthquake#Early_response
    Thanks for the news! Can you find a link where it is shown that Haitians asked for being forced out of self-determination? You can't.

    Haiti asked for humanitarian help and this incident with unions is the opposite of humanitarian help.
    Do you know how that law came to be?
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    29 Apr '10 16:18 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Thanks for the news! Can you find a link where it is shown that Haitians asked for being forced out of self-determination? You can't.

    Haiti asked for humanitarian help and this incident with unions is the opposite of humanitarian help.
    Do you know how that law came to be?
    You're like the boy who cried wolf.
  8. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Apr '10 16:19
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You're like the boy who cried wolf.
    I guess that knowing what I'm talking about makes the boy who cried wolf, then.
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    29 Apr '10 16:20
    "Self determination" in this sense was already illegal before the earthquake.
  10. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Apr '10 16:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    "Self determination" in this sense was already illegal before the earthquake.
    Why was it? Do you know why?
    Do you think that it is a good thing for the freedom loving, democracy bringer US government to keep on enforce. A law that is nothing more than a very strong form of coercion and blackmail.

    Do you think it falls on the realm of humanitarian help?
    You can say that the Muslim world wants to push Israel into the see and condemn it (never mind the fact that the assertion is a false one), but when he comes to criticizing your own government you have to resort to the usual cop outs.
    Good for you!
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    29 Apr '10 16:53
    Once again, in light of the fact that Haiti's ambassador asked us to be there and the UN approved the US military presence, do you believe there should have been no rule of law?
  12. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    29 Apr '10 16:55
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Once again, in light of the fact that Haiti's ambassador asked us to be there and the UN approved the US military presence, do you believe there should have been no rule of law?
    Of course I think that must be a rule of law (rule of law being the most recent fad of blanket terms in political discourse). I also think that the rule of law should be decided by the Haitian people. Don't you? Have you actually seen the whole interview?

    Once again: Do you know how that law came to be?
    I'm almost tempted to show you another new, but honestly I fear your possible answer to it.
  13. 29 Apr '10 17:00
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    It seems to me that the Marines are enforcing the law to keep order. It's a law in Haiti that business owners don't have to work with unions.

    What is your recommendation? No policing?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_work

    The right to work is the concept that people have a human right to work, and may not be prevented from doing so. The right to work is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law through its inclusion in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, where the right to work emphasizes economic, social and cultural development.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law

    Right-to-work laws are statutes enforced in twenty-two U.S. states, mostly in the southern or western U.S., allowed under provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act, which prohibit agreements between trade unions and employers making membership or payment of union dues or "fees" a condition of employment, either before or after hiring.
  14. 29 Apr '10 17:01
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    After the brutal past that the population of Haiti had to endure, the latest catastrophe being the earthquake, they are trying really hard to reconstruct their civil society and achieving a dignified standard of living.

    Worker are trying to fight for their rights, and organizing (just like the haitian people did in the time of Jean-Bertrand Aristide ...[text shortened]... .php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5048&updaterx=2010-04-28+23%3A42%3A09
    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5048&updaterx=2010-04-28+23%3A42%3A09

    Bio

    Didier Dominique is a trade unionist and a prominent spokesperson for Batay Ouvriye. BATAY OUVRIYE is an organization that regroups factory unions and committees, workers’ associations and militants, all struggling in Haiti for the construction of an independent, combative and democratic union movement, and to organize wage-workers, self-employed workers as well as the unemployed for the defense of their rights.
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    29 Apr '10 17:03
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Of course I think that must be a rule of law (rule of law being the most recent fad of blanket terms in political discourse). I also think that the rule of law should be decided by the Haitian people. Don't you? Have you actually seen the whole interview?

    Once again: Do you know how that law came to be?
    I'm almost tempted to show you another new, but honestly I fear your possible answer to it.
    Who speaks for the Haitian people?