Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberkmax87
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    12 Oct '17 07:58
    It's interesting that since the NYT reports, Harvey has been kicked to the curb in rapid fashion, sacked from his own company and made a pariah. It took a lot longer for Bill to be dumped with many voices claiming that they would do anything to destroy a black man's legacy.

    Why did it take so long to denounce Bill, whereas Harvey's trial by and media execution has been comparatively instantaneous.


    Any ideas folks?
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    12 Oct '17 08:35
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    It's interesting that since the NYT reports, Harvey has been kicked to the curb in rapid fashion, sacked from his own company and made a pariah. It took a lot longer for Bill to be dumped with many voices claiming that they would do anything to destroy a black man's legacy.

    Why did it take so long to denounce Bill, whereas Harvey's trial by and media execution has been comparatively instantaneous.


    Any ideas folks?
    To hazard a guess, Bill had a very well known public persona of a nice, moral, family man that most of the public had been exposed to.

    By contrast, the public didn't know Harvey at all.
  3. Standard membervivify
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    12 Oct '17 12:181 edit
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    It's interesting that since the NYT reports, Harvey has been kicked to the curb in rapid fashion, sacked from his own company and made a pariah. It took a lot longer for Bill to be dumped with many voices claiming that they would do anything to destroy a black man's legacy.

    Why did it take so long to denounce Bill, whereas Harvey's trial by and media execution has been comparatively instantaneous.


    Any ideas folks?
    When I saw the thread title, I thought you meant Bill Clinton. Then when you said it took longer for Bill to be "dumped", I thought you were referring to Bill O'Reilly. Then you said "black man's legacy", and I realized you meant Cosby.

    Why are there so many famous people named Bill who are sex offenders?
  4. Standard membervivify
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    12 Oct '17 12:501 edit
    Why did it take so long to denounce Cosby? Well, there's Cosby's image of a wholesome, clean guy. He was once referred to as "America's Dad". He was also an icon to both black and white America. So it was hard to believe at first.

    There's also the fact that Cosby had previous false allegations against him. There was a young woman who claimed that Cosby was her father, and the media jumped on the story---at first, until it came about that this wasn't true in the slightest. I remember Jay Leno made jokes about Cosby fathering other people, and then less than a week later, he was making jokes about the woman who made the false claim.

    Lastly, I think the sheer volume of women simultaneously coming out at once, made it seem like a conspiracy. Due to Cosby's reputation, fame, wealth and previous false allegations, scores of women claiming Cosby raped them seemed like a coordinated effort...at least in the beginning.

    Cosby was a special case. I don't think any other celebrity would've had so many people believing his innocence for so long.
  5. Subscriberkmax87
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    12 Oct '17 13:47
    Originally posted by @vivify
    ....Cosby was a special case. I don't think any other celebrity would've had so many people believing his innocence for so long.
    I think Harvey in a similar but opposite way has drawn instant judgement and dismissal, because he has long been the subject of jokes among Hollywood A lister's and insiders as being a very old school "hands on" producer.

    The longer people look, no doubt, the more tape will surface on youtube showing that Weinstein's behavior was an open secret. He was by all accounts the embodiment of the studio system during the golden years of Hollywood, where the casting couch was a powerful way to subordinate and subjugate women into the entertainment business.

    Yet is Harvey and his promotion of female issues a bit like the Founding Fathers and their seminal document the American constitution? Surely the similarity is all too clear. One championed the equality and empowerment of women, while actively dis-empowering any who came into his orbit with scandalous, brutish, sexually predatory behavior, while the other championed the rights of all men created equal while actively holding sizable numbers of slaves?
  6. Zugzwang
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    13 Oct '17 02:25
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    It's interesting that since the NYT reports, Harvey has been kicked to the curb in rapid fashion, sacked from his own company and made a pariah. It took a lot longer for Bill to be dumped with many voices claiming that they would do anything to destroy a black man's legacy.

    Why did it take so long to denounce Bill, whereas Harvey's trial by and media execution has been comparatively instantaneous.

    Any ideas folks?
    Bill Cosby worked in front of the cameras. Many in the public liked what they saw and naively assumed they knew him.
    In contrast, Harvey Weinstein worked behind the scenes, except for his appearances at the Oscars,
    when he would receive fawning praise from actresses (some of whom have turned against him now).
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    13 Oct '17 02:381 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    To hazard a guess, Bill had a very well known public persona of a nice, moral, family man that most of the public had been exposed to.

    By contrast, the public didn't know Harvey at all.
    The public did not know Harvey?

    Those in Hollywood and the media and political figures sure knew all about him, and the covered for a serial rapist for decades.

    YouTube : havry
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    13 Oct '17 02:411 edit
    So Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby, and Harvey Weinstein walk into a bar.

    Bill Cosby says.....

    YouTube : bill
  9. Subscriberkmax87
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    13 Oct '17 06:23
    Originally posted by @whodey
    The public did not know Harvey?

    Those in Hollywood and the media and political figures sure knew all about him, and the covered for a serial rapist for decades.

    [youtubehavry]tYhhtLMVHQs[/youtube]
    Got to love the FOX outrage by Tucker C and Hannity, given their former boss Roger Ailes and former Superstar Bill O'Reilly's falls from grace.

    But ever the network to double down, Fox relished the moment to carp at how long Weinstein "got away with it" seemingly oblivious to the toxic insidious male culture that permeated through every facet of news propaganda under Ailes leadership..

    So while Hannity monologues away about the hypocrisy of the MSM, hugging the high moral ground, while apparently giving safe harbor to Weinstein, he also somehow manages to overlook the fact that the instrument of Harvey's downfall, was none other than that great bastion of the left, a cornerstone of the MSM, liberal journalism's spiritual home, The New York Times.

    IF there were any equivalence in the matter, then show me the investigative journalism at Fox that toppled Ailes and O'Reilly.
  10. Joined
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    13 Oct '17 10:152 edits
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Got to love the FOX outrage by Tucker C and Hannity, given their former boss Roger Ailes and former Superstar Bill O'Reilly's falls from grace.

    But ever the network to double down, Fox relished the moment to carp at how long Weinstein "got away with it" seemingly oblivious to the toxic insidious male culture that permeated through every facet of news pro ...[text shortened]... in the matter, then show me the investigative journalism at Fox that toppled Ailes and O'Reilly.
    Of those charged with sex crimes against women, Bill Clinton, Trump, Harvey Weinstein, Bill O'Reilly, whom do you think is guilty and why?

    What we do know is that one fled the country. In fact, it is the same person who preached to us about fair treatment to women and women's rights. Additionally, it was the entire left wing who seemed to know of his mistreatment of women while preaching to right wingers like me that we were all sexist and misogynistic for not voting for Hillary who protected Harvey for decades. The same could be said for Bill Clinton.

    Do you better understand the problem?
  11. Subscriberkmax87
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    16 Oct '17 10:58
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Of those charged with sex crimes against women, Bill Clinton, Trump, Harvey Weinstein, Bill O'Reilly, whom do you think is guilty and why?

    What we do know is that one fled the country. In fact, it is the same person who preached to us about fair treatment to women and women's rights. Additionally, it was the entire left wing who seemed to know of his mi ...[text shortened]... for decades. The same could be said for Bill Clinton.

    Do you better understand the problem?
    At the end of the day, I think HW and female sexual harrassment is just the tip of a very large harrassment iceberg.

    The submerged bit that has never really seen the light of day, is male sexual harrassment.

    I'm going out on a limb here, but it's incredible to think that the last famous gay leading men in Hollywood were John Wayne, James Dean or Montgomery Cliff.

    It would go a long way to explaining the inequality experienced by women in Hollywood.
  12. Subscriberkmax87
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    16 Oct '17 14:12
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    At the end of the day, I think HW and female sexual harrassment is just the tip of a very large harrassment iceberg.

    The submerged bit that has never really seen the light of day, is male sexual harrassment.

    I'm going out on a limb here, but it's incredible to think that the last famous gay leading men in Hollywood were John Wayne, James Dean or Montg ...[text shortened]... Cliff.

    It would go a long way to explaining the inequality experienced by women in Hollywood.
    No takers to opine about Gay Hollywood and the Gay Mafia that operates there, and because of that power structure, women really tend to be treated as second class citizens, and that's just the way it is?

    Exposing Harvey may generate a bit of schadenfreude, but on the back-lots of Hollywood its already back to business as usual.
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    21 Oct '17 13:20
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    It's interesting that since the NYT reports, Harvey has been kicked to the curb in rapid fashion, sacked from his own company and made a pariah. It took a lot longer for Bill to be dumped with many voices claiming that they would do anything to destroy a black man's legacy.

    Why did it take so long to denounce Bill, whereas Harvey's trial by and media execution has been comparatively instantaneous.


    Any ideas folks?
    Maybe the same reason O.J. got off a murder charge.

    After all Harvey was NOT an actor
  14. Zugzwang
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    21 Oct '17 20:46
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    No takers to opine about Gay Hollywood and the Gay Mafia that operates there, and because of that power structure, women really tend to be treated as second class citizens, and that's just the way it is?

    Exposing Harvey may generate a bit of schadenfreude, but on the back-lots of Hollywood its already back to business as usual.
    "No takers to opine about Gay Hollywood and the Gay Mafia that operates there ..."
    --Kmax87

    I doubt that any writers here are 'Hollywood insiders', who have any knowledge of a 'Gay Mafia'.
    (What's exactly required for initiation into this 'Gay Mafia'? Was it shown in a 'Godfather' film?)

    "Because of that power structure, women really tend to be treated as second class citizens..."
    --Kmax87

    Does Kmax87 claim that sexism and misogyny comes only or mainly from a 'Gay Mafia' in Hollywood?
    Is Harvey Weinstein a gay man?
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