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  1. 25 Apr '10 22:29 / 1 edit
    I watch and listen to sports news, interviews and games, and I can't get the sentence "He do dat." out of my head. I must have heard it 20 times this weekend to describe certain players action in the playoffs. Broadcasters have used it to point out qualities of NFL draft picks. Has terrible grammar from sports professionals become accepted in society?
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    25 Apr '10 22:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by cheshirecatstevens
    I watch and listen to sports news, interviews and games, and I can't get the sentence "He do dat." out of my head. I must have heard it 20 times this weekend to describe certain players action in the playoffs. Broadcasters have used it to point out qualities of NFL draft picks. Has terrible grammar from sports professionals become accepted in society?
    That's "African American Language" AKA "Ebonics" AKA "Afro-American Language" AKA etc.

    Sports is one of the industries that blacks are heavily represented in...where black guys like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant define the standard of success.

    EDIT Here's a black comedian on ebonics. He uses a lot of profanity; Richard Pryor type of guy. Be forewarned. I don't remember if he does in this clip but he probably does.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klxGFAnY4nI
  3. Standard member joneschr
    Some guy
    25 Apr '10 22:37
    Languages change over time. That doesn't make the changes wrong. Most UK residents cringe in horror at the American dialect in general.
    I don't think professional sports is a place to be looking for "proper" english.

    Those aren't grammatical changes, by the way - just changes in the pronunciation (and spelling) of words.

    So yes, I think american society has begun to accept these changes, and it's not as much a reflection on americans accepting "improper english" as americans accepting the speaking their evolving language.
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    25 Apr '10 23:28
    Originally posted by joneschr
    Languages change over time. That doesn't make the changes wrong. Most UK residents cringe in horror at the American dialect in general.
    I don't think professional sports is a place to be looking for "proper" english.

    Those aren't grammatical changes, by the way - just changes in the pronunciation (and spelling) of words.

    So yes, I think american s ...[text shortened]... ccepting "improper english" as americans accepting the speaking their evolving language.
    They are grammatical changes I believe. It has to do with West African language structure. Sometimes they don't conjugate the verb.
  5. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    25 Apr '10 23:29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English
  6. 26 Apr '10 08:42
    Originally posted by cheshirecatstevens
    I watch and listen to sports news, interviews and games, and I can't get the sentence "He do dat." out of my head. I must have heard it 20 times this weekend to describe certain players action in the playoffs. Broadcasters have used it to point out qualities of NFL draft picks. Has terrible grammar from sports professionals become accepted in society?
    Surely that is just an example of a local patois like pidgin-English.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    26 Apr '10 08:51
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    Surely that is just an example of a local patois like pidgin-English.
    Yes it's arguably a patois but it's certainly not a pidgin language. These terms have specific meanings. If, as I suspect, you're simply trying to be churlish and insulting to people who exhibit a bit of otherness - as is your tedious wont - then it'd be much more effective if you could use your words correctly.
  8. 26 Apr '10 09:49
    Originally posted by FMF
    Yes it's arguably a patois but it's certainly not a pidgin language. These terms have specific meanings. If, as I suspect, you're simply trying to be churlish and insulting to people who exhibit a bit of otherness - as is your tedious wont - then it'd be much more effective if you could use your words correctly.
    The words in 'pidgin' also have specific meanings, Mr.Know-All.
    I suspect that you are just trying, and failing, to be clever again.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    26 Apr '10 09:53
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    The words in 'pidgin' also have specific meanings, Mr.Know-All.
    'Patois' and 'pidgin' are different things. If you want to use linguistics as the basis of your attempted slur, then you need to know a bit about linguistics. Otherwise you come across as fumbling your forum moment, rather.
  10. 26 Apr '10 10:51
    Originally posted by FMF
    'Patois' and 'pidgin' are different things. If you want to use linguistics as the basis of your attempted slur, then you need to know a bit about linguistics. Otherwise you come across as fumbling your forum moment, rather.
    And you come across as a pompous ass who thinks he knows more than in fact he does. On this particular topic, regarding patois and pidgin, see the following:-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patois
  11. 26 Apr '10 11:34
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    And you come across as a pompous ass who thinks he knows more than in fact he does. On this particular topic, regarding patois and pidgin, see the following:-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patois
    50 pts for you! (fmf goes silent)

    "Patois is any language that is considered nonstandard, although the term is not formally defined in linguistics. It can refer to pidgins, creoles, dialects, and other forms of native or local speech, but not commonly to jargon or slang, which are vocabulary-based forms of cant. Class distinctions are embedded in the term, drawn between those who speak patois and those who speak the standard or dominant language used in literature and public speaking, i.e., the "acrolect"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patois
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    26 Apr '10 11:37 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    And you come across as a pompous ass who thinks he knows more than in fact he does.
    Patois is a dialect. And pidgin is an artificial 'compromise' between two languages. I can assure you, American sports stars are not speaking a pidgin. However you may choose to refer to it as a patois. Sartor's response to the OP was clumsy and inaccurate.
  13. 26 Apr '10 12:05
    Originally posted by FMF
    Patois is a dialect. And pidgin is an artificial 'compromise' between two languages. I can assure you, American sports stars are not speaking a pidgin. However you may choose to refer to it as a patois. Sartor's response to the OP was clumsy and inaccurate.
    So as usual you are the only one 'in step'. The sure sign of a megalomaniac.
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    26 Apr '10 12:12
    Originally posted by Sartor Resartus
    So as usual you are the only one 'in step'. The sure sign of a megalomaniac.
    Suggesting that black Americans speak pidgin-English is either (a) a profoundly racist remark, or (b) a remark that exhbits ignorance of linguistics.
  15. 26 Apr '10 12:15 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Patois is a dialect. And pidgin is an artificial 'compromise' between two languages. I can assure you, American sports stars are not speaking a pidgin. However you may choose to refer to it as a patois. Sartor's response to the OP was clumsy and inaccurate.
    You have ignored the Wiki evidence as to your ignorance. You remind me of the babu who, on being reprimanded by his superior for making an error, replied, "Sir,you think I know f nothing but I know f all.