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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberkmax87
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    22 Aug '17 22:411 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    ....I reckon it's just like Obama with drones. When you think someone gets out of line, you just zap them!!!
    It's interesting that Americans turn what is only too clearly an example of US Imperialism that is undeniably independent of political administration into a cat call of partisan politics.

    "Since 2004, the United States government has attacked thousands of targets in Northwest Pakistan using unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency's Special Activities Division.[13] Most of these attacks are on targets in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas along the Afghan border in Northwest Pakistan. These strikes began during the administration of United States President George W. Bush, and increased substantially under his successor Barack Obama.[14] Some in the media have referred to the attacks as a "drone war".[15][16] The George W. Bush administration officially denied the extent of its policy; in May 2013, the Obama administration acknowledged for the first time that four US citizens had been killed in the strikes.[17] Surveys have shown that the strikes are deeply unpopular in Pakistan, where they have contributed to a negative perception of the United States.[18]"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan

    So the whole world sees a program initiated by the military industrial complex, controlled by the CIA that offends every notion of legitimacy, and US citizens turn it into a political football, because "your guy used the program more than our guy" and you wonder why the rest of the civilised world is totally over America's apparent amnesia or selective memory on certain foreign policy objectives that despite the loud disavowals continue unabated and are to a large extent administration independent.
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    22 Aug '17 22:44
    Originally posted by @sonhouse
    One restaurant in Piscataway NJ used to carry my Yuengling lager but stopped and then I went to Sam Adams which was an ok sub but not as good as old Yuengling.

    There was prohibition but that didn't stop most breweries, just went into hiding still producing.

    Funny the drug assswipes didn't figure that out about Marijuana. But that was deliberate, not ...[text shortened]... a free man and he did.

    I stil think about him from time to time. Now it's legal in Colorado.
    Yes it was about the cotton never about the high.

    Good post.
  3. Subscriberkmax87
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    22 Aug '17 22:57
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Yes it was about the cotton never about the high.

    Good post.
    And apparently DuPont's nylon.
  4. Zugzwang
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    23 Aug '17 00:142 edits
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    I doubt the injuns would have had much success. Hitler's well known for his little pranks.
    Anglophone writers here show their ignorance of German popular literature.
    They have little or no comprehension of the German-speaking cultural world.
    Hitler (like Einstein) was a fan of Karl May and derived his romanticized notions about
    idealized American 'Indians' from his novels.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_May

    "Karl Friedrich May ... was a German writer best known for his adventure novels set in the American Old West."
    "It is stated that Karl May is the "most read writer of German tongue". "

    "May had a substantial influence on a number of well-known German-speaking people
    and on the German population itself ... and contributed to the popular image of Native
    Americans in German-speaking countries."

    "For the novels set in America, May created the characters of Winnetou, the wise chief
    of the Apaches and Old Shatterhand, Winnetou's white blood brother."

    "Many well-known German-speaking people used May's heroes as models in their childhood.[18]
    Albert Einstein enjoyed May's books and said, "My whole adolescence stood under his sign.
    Indeed, even today, he has been dear to me in many a desperate hour..."[16]

    "Adolf Hitler was an admirer, who noted in Mein Kampf that the novels "overwhelmed"
    him as a boy, going as far as to ensure "a noticeable decline" in his school grades." ...
    Hitler later recommended the books to his generals and had special editions distributed
    to soldiers at the front, praising Winnetou as an example of "tactical finesse and circumspection" [22]
    though some note that the latter claims of using the books as military guidance are not
    substantiated.[16] However, as told by Albert Speer, "when faced by seemingly hopeless
    situations, he [Hitler] would still reach for these stories," because "they gave him courage like
    works of philosophy for others or the Bible for elderly people."[22] Hitler's admiration for
    May led the German writer Klaus Mann to accuse May of having been a form of "mentor" for Hitler.[15]
    In his admiration, Hitler ignored May's Christian and humanitarian approach and views completely,
    not mentioning his relatively sympathetic description of Jews and other persons of non-Northern European ancestry."

    "The fate of Native Americans in the United States was used during the world wars for
    anti-American propaganda.[citation needed] The National Socialists in particular tried to
    use May's popularity and his work for their purposes.[16]"

    Hitler was certainly a racist, yet he could respect and admire some non-white peoples in some ways.
    Hitler referred to the Japanese as 'honorary Aryans'. Hitler seemed to respect the
    black African askaris who had fought bravely for Germany during the First World War.
    So, while he regarded the American 'Indians' as inferior, Hitler still could have some
    sincere positive attitudes toward them.
  5. Zugzwang
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    23 Aug '17 00:22
    Originally posted by @kmax87 to Whodey
    It's interesting that Americans turn what is only too clearly an example of US Imperialism that is undeniably independent of political administration into a cat call of partisan politics.

    "Since 2004, the United States government has attacked thousands of targets in Northwest Pakistan using unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) controlled by the Cen ...[text shortened]... pite the loud disavowals continue unabated and are to a large extent administration independent.
    Pakistanis have told me that China is their only reliable ally.
    The more that the USA tilts toward India, the more that Pakistanis will loathe the USA.

    Pakistanis lack political influence in the USA. There's hardly any Pakistani lobby in Washington.
    So few, if any, American politicians, Democrat or Republican, sincerely care about the
    Pakistani civilians (including children) that the USA feels entitled to keep killing at will.
  6. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Aug '17 02:33
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Exactly.
    Hitler would've 'kicked' the Indians if he had taken of the U.S.
    Hitler intended to mimic the USA's genocide of American Indians by genociding Eastern European Slavic people.

    "Poles are the Iroquois of Europe" - Frederick the Great
  7. Zugzwang
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    23 Aug '17 02:46
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Hitler intended to mimic the USA's genocide of American Indians by genociding Eastern European Slavic people.

    "Poles are the Iroquois of Europe" - Frederick the Great
    _Hitler's Ostkrieg and the Indian Wars: Comparing Genocide and Conquest_
    by Edward Westermann (2016 University of Oklahoma Press)
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    23 Aug '17 05:55
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Hitler intended to mimic the USA's genocide of American Indians by genociding Eastern European Slavic people.

    "Poles are the Iroquois of Europe" - Frederick the Great
    It's just madness to contemplate!

    That parallel universe is quite a few degrees off I hope. Yikes!
  9. Zugzwang
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    23 Aug '17 18:36
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    Hitler intended to mimic the USA's genocide of American Indians by genociding Eastern European Slavic people.

    "Poles are the Iroquois of Europe" - Frederick the Great
    "...genociding (sic) Eastern European Slavic people."
    --AThousandYoung

    It's an exaggeration to claim that Hitler aimed at the genocide of all Slavs.
    At least, not all Slavs believed it because some Slavic peoples allied with Hitler.

    Hitler was allied with Bulgaria and nominal (puppet) states in Slovakia and Croatia.
    And Ukrainian nationalists and Vlasov's Russian Liberation Army (Русская освободительная армия).
  10. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Aug '17 19:421 edit
    The USA had Amerind allies too - for example the Lenape Delaware tribe:

    wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Fort_Pitt

    Nevertheless, the American Indian loss of land to the Anglo-Americans was one of the main inspirations behind Hitler's intent to expand East:

    http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

    The Generalplan Ost (German pronunciation: [ɡenəˈʁaːlˌplaːn ˈɔst]; English: Master Plan for the East), abbreviated GPO, was the Nazi German government's plan for the genocide and ethnic cleansing on a vast scale,[1] and colonization of Central and Eastern Europe by Germans.
  11. Zugzwang
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    23 Aug '17 19:461 edit
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    The USA had Amerind allies too - for example the Lenape Delaware tribe:

    wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Fort_Pitt

    Nevertheless, the American Indian loss of land to the Anglo-Americans was one of the main inspirations behind Hitler's intent to expand East:

    http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
    Can AThousandYoung comprehend the distinction between imperialist expansion and genocide?
    Imperialist expansion may or may not include genocide.

    With regard to the Third Reich's Ostpolitik, there were differences among German leaders.
    Some pragmatic Germans approved of reaching agreements with various eastern European
    peoples in order to gain their support for the great crusade against Stalin and the USSR.
    For instance, after the Katyn Massacre (by the USSR of ten thousands of Polish officers)
    came to light, some Germans urged Hitler to seek an alliance with right-wing Polish nationalists
    against the USSR, perhaps offering Poland (like Napoleon had) some form of nominal independence.
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Aug '17 20:10
    Originally posted by @robbie-carrobie
    How did they survive prohibition? The craft brewing Industry is exploding in America now.
    Organized crime.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Aug '17 20:25
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Can AThousandYoung comprehend the distinction between imperialist expansion and genocide?
    Imperialist expansion may or may not include genocide.

    With regard to the Third Reich's Ostpolitik, there were differences among German leaders.
    Some pragmatic Germans approved of reaching agreements with various eastern European
    peoples in order to gain their ...[text shortened]... against the USSR, perhaps offering Poland (like Napoleon had) some form of nominal independence.
    Absolutely I can comprehend the distinction. Conquest is what the Spanish did to the Mexicans, what the Turks did to the Balkans, what the Anglo-British did to the Hindu Indians etc.

    Hitler was disgusted by this sort of thing. He was vehemently, ideologically opposed to a State with multiple Folks like the Austrian Empire or Switzerland. He intended to do what the Anglo-Americans did to the American Indians and what the Anglo-Australians did to the Australian Aborigines. He intended to exterminate and replace, NOT conquer and dominate. It was part of why he lost.
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Aug '17 20:29
    Historically, Hitler’s view of the Slavic peoples was contentious and adversarial. It is not difficult to find hostile and aggressive remarks concerning the Slavs in both Hitler’s formal writings as well as in his informal discussions. In Mein Kampf, he ascribes his youthful awakening as a folkish nationalist to the ethnic struggles that he himself experienced between the Slavic Czechs and the Germans within the Austro-Hungarian Empire.


    Now it IS true that Hitler felt that some Slavs were biologically German and could be "re-educated" into their "true" culture. But this is far different than taking Mexicans, teaching them Spanish and Catholicism, and then forcing them to do your bidding. The same for the Turks and their Christian slave Janissaries, the French and their Black colonial armies, the British and their Hindu workers and servants, etc.

    Hitler was vehemently opposed to this sort of thing. He thought it a desecration of the Folkish nature of the State.
  15. Zugzwang
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    23 Aug '17 20:481 edit
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%ADda_Baarov%C3%A1

    Lída Baarová (a Slav) was a Czech actress who was the mistress of Joseph Goebbels.

    "Their love affair caused serious complications between Goebbels and his wife Magda.
    When the minister began to show up in public with his mistress, Magda Goebbels in turn
    began an affair with Goebbels' state secretary Karl Hanke and eventually asked Hitler for
    permission to divorce her husband."

    One possibility was that if Goebbels divorced his wife and married Lída Baarová, he would
    be appointed as Germany's ambassador to Japan, thus keeping him away from scrutiny at home.
    But Hitler believed that the Goebbels' divorce would be a major scandal that should be avoided.

    Reportedly, Hitler had a crush upon his secretary, Gerda Daranowski (Polish name), whom he called 'Dara'.
    He spoke with such admiration about Dara as a woman that Eva Braun became jealous.
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