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  1. 07 Jan '10 18:39
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8445574.stm

    Honduran prosecutors have charged three military chiefs with abuse of power in connection with the ousting and exile of President Manuel Zelaya last June.

    "A spokesman said they were being charged with abuse of authority for sending Mr Zelaya out of the country. Under the Honduran constitution, it is illegal to forcibly remove Honduran citizens from the country.

    "We will submit ourselves to Honduran justice if necessary because we are men of the law," Gen Vasquez told local media.

    Mr Zelaya dismissed the charges as a cover to obscure the truth of what happened on 28 June.

    "If they are saying that the armed forces committed an error, then that error is called a coup, and the error was subsequently ratified, or rather confirmed by the National Congress," he said.

    The reasons for and manner of Mr Zelaya's ousting have been bitterly disputed."

    " The Supreme Court ruled that his plans to look at changing the constitution were in themselves a violation of the constitution and ordered his arrest, while Congress voted to remove him from office.

    However, instead of being detained and charged in Honduras, Mr Zelaya was seized by soldiers who burst into his home and driven to the airport. There he was put on a flight to Costa Rica.

    The speaker of Congress, Roberto Micheletti, constitutionally second-in-line to the presidency, was sworn in as interim leader.

    Mr Micheletti's government and the military have insisted his removal was a constitutional transfer of power. Many regional countries, the UN, the Organization of American States (OAS) and the European Union condemned the situation as a coup and demanded Mr Zelaya's immediate reinstatement."

    .......

    any thoughts?
  2. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    07 Jan '10 20:50
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8445574.stm

    [b]Honduran prosecutors have charged three military chiefs with abuse of power in connection with the ousting and exile of President Manuel Zelaya last June.


    "A spokesman said they were being charged with abuse of authority for sending Mr Zelaya out of the country. Under the Honduran const ...[text shortened]... a coup and demanded Mr Zelaya's immediate reinstatement."

    .......

    any thoughts?[/b]
    Bring him back to Honduras, have him stand trial. He should be able to sue the government for $$$$.
  3. 08 Jan '10 05:20
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8445574.stm

    [b]Honduran prosecutors have charged three military chiefs with abuse of power in connection with the ousting and exile of President Manuel Zelaya last June.


    "A spokesman said they were being charged with abuse of authority for sending Mr Zelaya out of the country. Under the Honduran const ...[text shortened]... a coup and demanded Mr Zelaya's immediate reinstatement."

    .......

    any thoughts?[/b]
    I think its a good idea to punish the generals involved in exiling the former president, even though he was breaking the constitution and ignoring the supreme court and the congress, he should be punished a better way. The international community no longer stands the Honduran way of doing government, which still relies heavily on its military institution for enforcement. There is a better way, through strengthening civilian onstitutions.
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Jan '10 08:11
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Honduran prosecutors have charged three military chiefs with abuse of power in connection with the ousting and exile of President Manuel Zelaya last June.
    [...]
    "...Under the Honduran constitution, it is illegal to forcibly remove Honduran citizens from the country. [/b]
    RHP critics of the military's actions in the coup have been vindicated. Pro-coup posters can choose to concede, wriggle, or obfuscate.
  5. 08 Jan '10 14:13
    Originally posted by FMF
    RHP critics of the military's actions in the coup have been vindicated. Pro-coup posters can choose to concede, wriggle, or obfuscate.
    what world are you living on where the exiled, voted out, defeated in the manner prescribed in the agreement ZELAYA is in any way vindicated or his defenders?
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Jan '10 14:17
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    what world are you living on where the exiled, voted out, defeated in the manner prescribed in the agreement ZELAYA is in any way vindicated or his defenders?
    When exactly was Zelaya "voted out"? His term expired.

    His exile was illegal. This is no longer a realistically disputed fact. Do you dispute it?

    Some RHP posters were fiercely critical of the military's actions in the coup. These posters and their criticisms have been vindicated by the charges being brought against the three senior military officers.
  7. 08 Jan '10 14:21
    LOL if you say so

    Zelaya's party was crushed in the recent elections.
    Congress voted against him purusant to the compromise discussed, he was not returned to his post.
    The people, the congress, and the courts of Honduras have been vindicated.

    Now the cleanup of the technicalities can be done without a power excutive interfering with the runnings of his nations' institutions.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Jan '10 14:23
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    Zelaya's party was crushed in the recent elections.
    Congress voted against him purusant to the compromise discussed, he was not returned to his post.
    The people, the congress, and the courts of Honduras have been vindicated.

    Now the cleanup of the technicalities can be done without a power excutive interfering with the runnings of his nations' institutions.
    Well, as I said, RHP critics of the military's actions in the coup have been vindicated.
  9. 08 Jan '10 17:30
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    I think its a good idea to punish the generals involved in exiling the former president, even though he was breaking the constitution and ignoring the supreme court and the congress, he should be punished a better way. The international community no longer stands the Honduran way of doing government, which still relies heavily on its military institution for enforcement. There is a better way, through strengthening civilian onstitutions.
    I completely agree.
  10. 08 Jan '10 17:32
    Originally posted by FMF
    RHP critics of the military's actions in the coup have been vindicated. Pro-coup posters can choose to concede, wriggle, or obfuscate.
    wow, is it really that simple despite the fact that the generals are being charged for forcing zelaya out of the country (which is unconstitutional) and not for the coup?
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Jan '10 17:50 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    wow, is it really that simple despite the fact that the generals are being charged for forcing zelaya out of the country (which is unconstitutional) and not for the coup?
    Generals forcing a president out of a country unconstitutionally at gunpoint IS a coup.
  12. 08 Jan '10 17:59
    Originally posted by FMF
    Generals forcing a president out of a country unconstitutionally at gunpoint IS a coup.
    His removal was approved by the supreme court and congress, what was declared unconstitutional was his exile.
  13. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    08 Jan '10 18:12
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    His removal was approved by the supreme court and congress, what was declared unconstitutional was his exile.
    Well it appeared that the Supreme Court approved it after the Generals had made their move, and furthermore someone in Congress produced a fake resignation letter for which nobody has yet been arrested or charged. The Supreme Court, who never heard any testimony from President Zelaya or from any representative of his - now isn't that very odd? - may have been trying to save face after the military had taken the matter into their own hands. This could be why there is this court case now. A kind of belated civilian revenge, so to speak. There is absolutely no doubt that Zelaya - and Honduras - were the victims of a coup. There is scarcely a credible newspaper or magazine in South America that doesn't refer to it as a coup. The E.U. views it as a coup. The O.A.S. views it as a coup. Generalissimo doen't view it as a coup. The U.N. views it as a coup. All the major international news agencies view it and refer to it as a coup. Even The Economist, no friend at all to leftists in the region, called it a coup and continues to call it a coup.

    Anyway, to return to the topic in hand. News that Honduran prosecutors have charged three military chiefs with abuse of power in connection with the ousting and exile of Zelaya last June means that RHP critics of the military's actions in the coup have been vindicated.
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 Jan '10 18:35
    Originally posted by eljefejesus
    LOL if you say so

    Zelaya's party was crushed in the recent elections.
    Congress voted against him purusant to the compromise discussed, he was not returned to his post.
    The people, the congress, and the courts of Honduras have been vindicated.

    Now the cleanup of the technicalities can be done without a power excutive interfering with the runnings of his nations' institutions.
    "Zelaya's party" would be more accurately described as his ex-party as it's leaders supported the coup. It's "crushing" does not say anything at all about popular support for Zelaya.

    The people were given the choice of voting for two parties who supported a military coup. Unsurprisingly, the majority didn't bother to vote (the first time this had happened in the history of Honduran elections).

    Most Latin American countries did not recognize the election has a legitimate one; it was preceded by a month long period where the rights (including that of assembly) of the people were suspended. Hardly a situation where the legitimate will of the people can be expressed.

    Honduras is back where it was pre-Zelaya; controlled by an oligarchy which is perfectly willing to use its lap dogs in the military to overthrow elected officials and repress the rights of the people.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    08 Jan '10 18:45
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well it appeared that the Supreme Court approved it after the Generals had made their move, and furthermore someone in Congress produced a fake resignation letter for which nobody has yet been arrested or charged. The Supreme Court, who never heard any testimony from President Zelaya or from any representative of his - now isn't that very odd? - may have been tr ...[text shortened]... last June means that RHP critics of the military's actions in the coup have been vindicated.
    You're reading too much into this; it's a sham and public relations stunt as this article in the NY Times makes clear. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/world/americas/08honduras.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

    The generals will soon be granted amnesty and will return to their job of preventing the Honduran people from ever breaking the power of the oligarchs who run that country to the detriment of its people.