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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber mchill
    Infinitorum
    19 Dec '17 20:15
    House Republicans rammed through their tax plan along party lines. Before you Trumpbots start celebrating, I'd take a long, hard look at what this did to the great (red) state of Kansas. See links 2 and 3.

    Hint: It's NOT pretty!


    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-passes-massive-tax-package-senate-to-vote-next/ar-BBH0UCm?li=BBnb7Kz

    https://www.npr.org/2017/10/25/560040131/as-trump-proposes-tax-cuts-kansas-deals-with-aftermath-of-experiment

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/gop-tried-trump-style-tax-cuts-kansas-n812701
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Dec '17 20:48
    Originally posted by @mchill
    House Republicans rammed through their tax plan along party lines. Before you Trumpbots start celebrating, I'd take a long, hard look at what this did to the great (red) state of Kansas. See links 2 and 3.

    Hint: It's NOT pretty!


    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-passes-massive-tax-package-senate-to-vote-next/ar-BBH0UCm?li=BBnb7Kz

    ht ...[text shortened]... nt

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/gop-tried-trump-style-tax-cuts-kansas-n812701
    Democrats should be overjoyed; the Republicans have managed to pass a tax cut more unpopular than tax increases were in the past. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/will-passing-the-tax-bill-help-the-gop-in-2018-probably-not/

    And it's chock full of hidden goodies that will become public during the 2018 election season such as this one: Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, inserted language into the final tax bill that would enrich three different constituencies: fossil fuel firms, Republicans’ major campaign donors and a handful of Cornyn’s GOP congressional colleagues including Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and two other Texas lawmakers in the House. Cornyn originally added the language in an amendment to the Senate bill at the same time his former chief of staff was lobbying both the House and Senate on the tax treatment for those same oil and gas partnerships. http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/cornyn-pipeline-amendment-enriches-gop-lawmakers-language-inserted-cornyns-former

    It looks like the GOP had decided to grab what it can for itself and its rich buddies before the 2018 election.
  3. 19 Dec '17 21:22
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Democrats should be overjoyed; the Republicans have managed to pass a tax cut more unpopular than tax increases were in the past. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/will-passing-the-tax-bill-help-the-gop-in-2018-probably-not/

    And it's chock full of hidden goodies that will become public during the 2018 election season such as this one: Sen. John Co ...[text shortened]... he GOP had decided to grab what it can for itself and its rich buddies before the 2018 election.
    This could very well be the Republican's Obama Care.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Dec '17 21:35 / 1 edit
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power, they'll reverse the corporate tax cuts, re-install the corporate AMT and reduce the estate tax threshold, but leave the middle class tax cuts in this bill alone.

    The bill may be bad for the country and the budget deficit, but even with the SALT deduction being cut back, this will save me some serious dough, principally through the increased child tax credit.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    19 Dec '17 21:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sh76
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power, they'll reverse the corporate tax cuts, re-install the corporate AMT and reduce the estate tax threshold, but leave the middle class tax cuts in this bill alone.

    The bill may be bad for the country and the budget deficit, but even with the SALT deduction being cut back, this will save me some serious dough, principally through the increased child tax credit.
    Since the Dems were willing to slash the corporate tax rates under Obama, I find that unlikely. They'll pontificate through the 2018 midterms but virtually all of these tax changes will remain permanent like the Reagan ones.

    Is that true for you considering they did away with the all personal exemptions including for dependents?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Dec '17 22:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Since the Dems were willing to slash the corporate tax rates under Obama, I find that unlikely. They'll pontificate through the 2018 midterms but virtually all of these tax changes will remain permanent like the Reagan ones.

    Is that true for you considering they did away with the all personal exemptions including for dependents?
    Good point. Maybe not. I'd have to figure it out. There are a couple of other provisions that help me as well, though.

    If the Dems re-take Congress and the WH, I do think they'll bring the estate tax threshold back down to 3.5 million, if nothing else.
  7. Subscriber mchill
    Infinitorum
    19 Dec '17 23:04
    Originally posted by @sh76
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power, they'll reverse the corporate tax cuts, re-install the corporate AMT and reduce the estate tax threshold, but leave the middle class tax cuts in this bill alone.

    The bill may be bad for the country and the budget deficit, but even with the SALT deduction being cut back, this will save me some serious dough, principally through the increased child tax credit.
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power,


    There is something to be said for smart people!
  8. 19 Dec '17 23:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power,


    There is something to be said for smart people!
    Latest news is that they - the House - have to vote again tomorrow due to parliamentary problems forcing revisions.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Dec '17 23:45
    Originally posted by @mchill
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power,


    There is something to be said for smart people!
    In American politics, the pendulum swings back and forth. It's virtually a fact of nature that each major party has its turn to govern.

    Personally, I think the country is best off with a mixed government.But one party having control of all three (House, Senate, WH) almost inevitably leads to the other party re-gaining some power soon anyway.
  10. 20 Dec '17 00:40
    as long as you allow obscene amounts of money to be given to politicians, you will not have a functioning democracy. when you can buy your own senator, how much of a servant of the people is that senator?
  11. 20 Dec '17 00:58
    Originally posted by @sh76
    In American politics, the pendulum swings back and forth. It's virtually a fact of nature that each major party has its turn to govern.

    Personally, I think the country is best off with a mixed government.But one party having control of all three (House, Senate, WH) almost inevitably leads to the other party re-gaining some power soon anyway.
    I love the way serve the people has evolved into govern.
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    20 Dec '17 01:45 / 1 edit
    The bill has one redeeming feature IMO: it does provide for full expensing of purchases of capital equipment in the first year. Depreciation is dead.

    EDIT: OOPS! Apparently it's temporarily dead:

    Capital expensing: Allows businesses to immediately write off, or expense, the full value of equipment for five years, then gradually eliminates 100 percent expensing over a five-year period beginning in year six.

    https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-12-17/heres-whats-final-version-republican-tax-bill
  13. 20 Dec '17 03:09
    Originally posted by @mchill
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power,


    There is something to be said for smart people!
    Let me tell you about the "smart people". They elect people who either given them lower taxes or more free stuff.

    That is the beauty of the two party system.
  14. 20 Dec '17 03:10
    Originally posted by @sh76
    My hope is that when the Dems re-take power, they'll reverse the corporate tax cuts, re-install the corporate AMT and reduce the estate tax threshold, but leave the middle class tax cuts in this bill alone.

    The bill may be bad for the country and the budget deficit, but even with the SALT deduction being cut back, this will save me some serious dough, principally through the increased child tax credit.
    If liberals think that corporate taxes are such a good thing why don't liberal states just tax corporations at a rate they think is acceptable?
  15. 20 Dec '17 03:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @eladar
    This could very well be the Republican's Obama Care.
    Speaking of which, I hear that the mandate to buy health care is now gone with this new bill.

    If so, does that mean that health care prices will go even higher and faster?

    Methinks the wet dream of a single payer system is just around the corner, especially since the Pubes refuse to repeal and replace it. They have set the table for the ravenous Dims to do their worst. I think it is really want they wanted all along, they just can't publically be seen as supporting it.